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  #31  
Old 08-12-2019, 06:51 AM
rwmct rwmct is offline
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My instructor writes out the up and down symbols and underneath he writes the "1 e and a 2 e and a 3 e and a . . . " Leaving blanks for when you don't strum. So it might go, for a particular song,

"1 e + 2 + 3 + a 4 e and a"

Then he says, keep the hand moving on those you don't strum.

I know this is kindergarten stuff, but it helps a lot, IMO. Learning the strumming parts to Aqualung now, for example, and this helps a lot.
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  #32  
Old 08-12-2019, 11:50 PM
PetesaHut PetesaHut is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarFundi View Post
Howdy,

I am constantly trying to learn songs from tablature and they never include the strum patterns. It is either not there at all or they say watch the artist play and you'll figure it out..... Sorry, but I can never figure it out!

If people are going to go to the trouble of creating the tabs Why, O, Why not include the strum patterns?

Am I missing something?
Hopefully, this video may be of use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URJJma_eApU
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  #33  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:43 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarFundi View Post
Howdy,

I am constantly trying to learn songs from tablature and they never include the strum patterns. It is either not there at all or they say watch the artist play and you'll figure it out..... Sorry, but I can never figure it out!

If people are going to go to the trouble of creating the tabs Why, O, Why not include the strum patterns?

Am I missing something?
Dear Guitarfundi,
A while ago I went to an open night at a folk club and saw a number of people performing songs with that up/down scrubbing action on their guitars.
It occurred to me that it ruined any expression intended in their lyrics and fixed the delivery as if it were a march.

Please watch this video I made last year :



and also this one that I made just last month:



I hope it helps.
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  #34  
Old 08-15-2019, 01:07 AM
GuitarFundi GuitarFundi is offline
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Sorry I went MIA... tuff times right now.

I am very grateful for all the info and will eagerly start looking at it! And let y'all know how I fare!

God Bless
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  #35  
Old 08-18-2019, 02:27 PM
Sonics Sonics is offline
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Wrong question!

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  #36  
Old 08-20-2019, 09:14 AM
mattbn73 mattbn73 is offline
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Just my 2c on this: https://youtu.be/3yr10-RYBbU
Sorry for the recording quality.

Last edited by mattbn73; 08-20-2019 at 09:57 AM.
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  #37  
Old 08-21-2019, 01:19 PM
SunnyDee SunnyDee is offline
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I have the same cheated/robbed/Fairy story. I started at zero, too, so I may understand your need to figure out the strumming, but I also get the comments that are saying to feel it and such.

I think it's helpful, at the stage you're in, to see it laid out and realize that there are a number of common patterns and once you feel comfortable with them, then you can just choose what's best for you and the song, even switching them and combining them in the same song.

I think Andy's strumming course is a pretty good start on that. I also think taking the advice here and elsewhere to count the beats 1&2& etc is far superior to thinking DuDuuu.... It carries a lot more useful information and also carries over to other instruments where D U won't make sense at all.
https://www.andyguitar.co.uk/online-lessons/

Most people, as you can tell from the comments, intuit the strum pattern and do what's natural for them, which is, I think, why it's a lot harder to copy someone else's pattern (for a popular song, for instance) than to make one yourself that goes well with the music and lyrics. If you watch a number of live performances of those songs, you'll most likely see that even the songwriter doesn't play it the same way all the time. Good luck!
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  #38  
Old 08-25-2019, 05:51 PM
Gtrfinger Gtrfinger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotspur View Post
The problem is that upstrokes and downstrokes don't really have anything to do with the way most players play guitar once you get beyond basic beginner stuff. We don't think that way.

I can play the same pattern as all downstrokes, all upstrokes, or as a mix depending on how I want to emphasize different beats. Heck, if I'm playing three-string voicings of chords, I can play them in a way where I suspect 99% of guitarists couldn't tell from listening if I was playing an upstroke or a downstroke.

And if you can tell from listening, then it doesn't matter.

Get the rhythm right, and strum it however you like the sound of it. '

I literally can't imagine watching a video to figure out a performer's upstrokes and downstrokes. It strikes me as almost absurd to try.

Use your ears. Listen to the rhythm. Upstrokes and downstrokes don't matter.
Exactly. I think beginners overthink this aspect of guitar playing. Just play to the beat. Even if you can only do downstrokes. One downstroke per beat. Of all the different guitar techniques I think strumming is the one that must come naturally and intuitively once you're playing to the beat. I worry when I see these strumming charts for beginners.
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  #39  
Old 08-28-2019, 05:14 AM
mastercaster mastercaster is offline
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If you like The Beatles this is a excellent book for improving strum hand performance. Rather than a off the record transcription it can include single note lines, multiple strum patterns, percussive strums and rests all in one song.

https://www.halleonard.com/product/v...eature=GTRPLA&

Another great resource for learning to feel time in a visual format.

https://truefire.com/acoustic-guitar...playbook/c1220
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  #40  
Old 08-28-2019, 07:43 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtrfinger View Post
Exactly. I think beginners overthink this aspect of guitar playing. Just play to the beat. Even if you can only do downstrokes. One downstroke per beat. Of all the different guitar techniques I think strumming is the one that must come naturally and intuitively once you're playing to the beat. I worry when I see these strumming charts for beginners.
I agree.
The confusion seems to arise from the difference between the hand movement and when the strings are actually struck.
A lot of beginners see something like "DDUUD" and think that means one stroke per beat - even though it seems to indicate 5 beats!

I don't thnk I've ever seen it explained (although I'm sure some sensible person somewhere must have), thats one's hand moves in a down-up fashion regularly the whole time. Like a pendulum or a metronome arm. A 4/4 bar is always DU-DU-DU-DU in that sense. (Unless it's very slow, in which case it will be DUDU-DUDU-DUDU-DUDU, because then the hand moves down on every 8th.)

Strumming patterns - when they matter and usually they don't - then arise from which of those 8 movements actually hit the strings! Many of them miss. Occasionally all 8 will hit, but with varied dynamics - another important element of strumming rarely discussed.

Even when beginners do understand that some strokes miss, they still get obsessed with thinking DDUUD or whatever, before they've got the hang of keeping a simple beat.
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  #41  
Old 08-28-2019, 08:11 AM
AuntieDiluvian AuntieDiluvian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarFundi View Post
Howdy,

I am constantly trying to learn songs from tablature and they never include the strum patterns. It is either not there at all or they say watch the artist play and you'll figure it out..... Sorry, but I can never figure it out!

If people are going to go to the trouble of creating the tabs Why, O, Why not include the strum patterns?

Am I missing something?
The issue is that guitar tablature only does one thing - shows the fingerings for a sequence of notes. This is a very small fraction of the total information necessary to play a song.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweiss View Post
I don't know how a strum pattern could be accurately tabbed. To me tab is useless in conveying a sense of rhythm.
Agreed 100%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
Because rhythm slashes are the most effective way, and most folks posting free internet tabs simply don't know how to do it, as it requires some knowledge of standard notation.

I'm amazed anybody can make sense out of the whole dudu dduudu thing...gives no information as to time...
This. Here's an example from a broadway score - interestingly, it's the only one I've ever gotten that had tab, and I assume it's because this particular show was written by a player who uses a lot of alternate tunings (Duncan Sheik). Once you get used to the "slash" notation, it's actually very easy to read, IMO.



As long as you always use a down stroke on the downbeat, everything comes out fine in the end. I find that I unconsciously move my right hand to a constant beat, regardless of whether the pick is touching the strings or not; the "missed" or "rest" strokes are just as important for making it sound fluid as the "hit" strokes are. This probably makes no sense to most players, but it's one way of thinking about it.
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Last edited by AuntieDiluvian; 08-28-2019 at 08:17 AM.
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  #42  
Old 08-29-2019, 05:25 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuntieDiluvian View Post
As long as you always use a down stroke on the downbeat, everything comes out fine in the end. I find that I unconsciously move my right hand to a constant beat, regardless of whether the pick is touching the strings or not; the "missed" or "rest" strokes are just as important for making it sound fluid as the "hit" strokes are. This probably makes no sense to most players, but it's one way of thinking about it.
It makes perfect sense - and IMO it's the best way of thinking about it. Maybe the only sensible way,

As I said in the post before yours, though, it never seems to be explained that way, which is - IMO - why so many beginners have trouble.

The other reason, of course, is they have yet to develop that "unconscious" right hand movement. Most teachers seem to take that for granted, because (like you and me) they are so used to it. But - as I know from my teaching - for most people it's not natural at all. It might seem a very simple principle, but I think beginners are distracted by all the other rhythmic elements of a song, especially melody.
It's funny, because I'm sure most of them could dance to a piece of music properly, hearing where the beat is and moving to it. 99% of people, musicians or not, can clap successfully to the beat of a song (I mean a standard 4/4 pop, country, blues or rock song). The right arm strum movement is only an extension of that - marking the beat in the same way. And yet most beginners (not all) always get confused by it. Even if they get that point, the idea of a strum pattern will throw it right off - because they haven'i internalised it.
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  #43  
Old 08-30-2019, 09:30 AM
jaymarsch jaymarsch is offline
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Bruce Emery's Skeptical Guitarist Series of books does a very well-explained lesson on strumming in his book "Guitar from Scratch". Here is a link to his offerings.

http://www.skepticalguitarist.com

Best,
Jayne
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  #44  
Old 08-30-2019, 09:47 AM
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fazool fazool is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good_Ol_Rock View Post
I totally hear you. I'm having the same problem. The best approach, I guess,.....

You're seven years too late to answer his question.
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  #45  
Old 08-30-2019, 10:09 AM
jaymarsch jaymarsch is offline
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Originally Posted by fazool View Post
You're seven years too late to answer his question.
It's okay. We'll still probably be answering this question seven years from now.

Best,
Jayne
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