Power Rating Bose S1Pro?

[Chickee]

I've been reading all info that I can find about the battery powered Bose S1Pro and nowhere can I find a power rating for this powered speaker cabinet. Does anyone have the answer to this? The reviews have been great and I am very interested in purchasing this, but my concern is that its limitations will be that of a practice amp. Also, has anyone been running a two cab setup of these as a portable PA with a small mixer(6 to 10 channels) in small venues, say 50-80 ppl?
Thanks in advance
Chickee

[Captain Jim]

Originally Posted by Chickee

I've been reading all info that I can find about the battery powered Bose S1Pro and nowhere can I find a power rating for this powered speaker cabinet. Does anyone have the answer to this? The reviews have been great and I am very interested in purchasing this, but my concern is that its limitations will be that of a practice amp. Also, has anyone been running a two cab setup of these as a portable PA with a small mixer(6 to 10 channels) in small venues, say 50-80 ppl?
Thanks in advance
Chickee

There has been a lot of discussion of the S1 here, including a couple folks using 2 of them as a small PA. I have mentioned this before, but my take on it is the S1 is "about half of" an L1C, both in size and coverage. If I felt the need for 2 S1s, I would go with an L1C (I have both, so I do appreciate the capability of each). You could use a small mixer with either.

The advantage of the L1C is the form factor: the array section is on an extensions, the base section houses the bass speaker. Fast to set up, easy to cart around. I have done groups up to 150 with the L1C.

The S1 is way more than a practice amp - good sound, plenty of power for its size. If you need battery powered sound for a small venue, this should be on your short list. Nice versatility, too, being able to use it on a stand, on the ground, on a table, and as a monitor.

For practical purposes, using two of these as a "traditional style" PA, where putting them on stands would likely be part of the set-up, you are losing a lot of the "quick and easy" aspect of this unit.

Bose is not always forthcoming with their power ratings. In actual use, they do the job in a different way from a traditional PA. I've been using the L1C for 8 years - there was an initial learning curve: you don't have to blast out the sound, like with a traditional PA; the Bose products fill the room without the need for more volume. Truly, this is where they shine. If you are doing a bass-heavy rock situation, neither of these units would be my first choice.

I kept my larger PA for almost a year after getting the L1C... just in case. Didn't need it and found it was an absolute joy to bring in the L1C in one hand, with the extension sections in a bag over my shoulder. The S1 Pro is even easier (if you don't need to haul around a stand); the trade-off is a bit less coverage and power (I've read 3db less with the S1 vs the L1C).

If you need 6 to 10 channels with a mixer, you may need more capability that either of these Bose units. I am doing a solo singer/guitarist, and both of these work fine for my use.

[Chickee]

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

If you need 6 to 10 channels with a mixer, you may need more capability that either of these Bose units. I am doing a solo singer/guitarist, and both of these work fine for my use.

Thank you Captain. I have read your take on this in other threads and it is duly noted that you are a fan, given the right venue. I very much appreciated your evaluation. My question about these cabs being suitable for a small PA is because there were some questions about the functionality in that scope. For busking, these are a no-brainer. Cello+mic in one, guitar+mic in other. Done. But for the small bar scene(less than 60 people tops), guitar, cello, electric keyboard, two mic's? Is this possible?

[lkingston]

The S1 is rated at 40 Watts. I’d like to believe this is RMS, but I’m not sure.

[Chickee]

Originally Posted by lkingston

The S1 is rated at 40 Watts. I’d like to believe this is RMS, but I’m not sure.

Thank you. I haven't been able to find that anywhere. I'm sorry, I don't know what RMS means?

[DavidE]

Originally Posted by lkingston

The S1 is rated at 40 Watts. I’d like to believe this is RMS, but I’m not sure.

Wow, that's it??

[lkingston]

Originally Posted by DavidE

Wow, that's it??

They claim high efficiency and use the example of an LED vs incandescent light to say that the S1 produces. Lot more SPL than the wattage would lead you to expect.

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by Chickee

But for the small bar scene(less than 60 people tops), guitar, cello, electric keyboard, two mic's? Is this possible?

Since you state you've read many of the reviews here about the S1 you no doubt have almost surely run across my opinions and know that I am a huge fan of the S1. However, for your stated needs above, I serious doubt the S1 is an optimal solution for you. Especially for the keyboards.

While I've never tested my S1 with anything other than one guitar and two mics, I've seen many people post that when it comes to amplifying keys you really need a dedicated sub woofer of some kind. From my personal experiences with driving the S1 to it's limits, I can tell you that the first thing that gets over-driven quickly is the lows.

[Chickee]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

Since you state you've read many of the reviews here about the S1 you no doubt have almost surely run across my opinions and know that I am a huge fan of the S1. However, for your stated needs above, I serious doubt the S1 is an optimal solution for you. Especially for the keyboards.

While I've never tested my S1 with anything other than one guitar and two mics, I've seen many people post that when it comes to amplifying keys you really need a dedicated sub woofer of some kind. From my personal experiences with driving the S1 to it's limits, I can tell you that the first thing that gets over-driven quickly is the lows.

Yes, no doubt! I've followed your posts and videos very carefully. You have been the point person on the AGF with this rig. I'll let you know next week when the parts arrive if in fact a mixer with compressors can dial in a cello, guitar, electric piano, and two mic's successfully. Worse case scenario is keys gets own speaker cab for bar/restaurant work. For street playing without keys I can't see this being beat.

[jseth]

I can't imagine being satisfied with the S1 while running all that stuff you described through it... it's not made for that! It's made for ONE person, and I suspect that it does that job VERY well... I'm a huge Bose fan, have played through an L1 Model I Classic and an L1 Model II for the past 9 years or so... and of all the negatives I've heard and read concerning that system (as well as the other, smaller L1 systems), they have ALL been because the operator was trying to use the thing for a bunch more inputs than it was designed for...

Sounds like you need a small PA system for all those inputs. If you are considering any of the Bose units, do yourself a huge favor (and save a lot of money!) and check out the Bose "concept" of live sound re-inforcement THOROUGHLY before you plunk your hard earned money down. I know a fair number of people who are so used to the conventional "point and shoot" PA system that they couldn't seem to "wrap their heads" around the Bose rigs...

As an aside? Don't fall for the "more watts is better" schpiel... the overall output has a whole lot more factors than just how many watts something has... especially nowadays, when quoted wattage is given without ANY sort of "benchmark" for a standard... used to be RMS (root means square), but it seems every manufacturer has a different "standard" of measurement for their own gear these days.

I have a tiny little AER Compact 60 - which has 60 solid state watts and ONE 8" speaker... now, something that size should "run out of gas" pretty quick, right? Well, I can play acoustic guitar and sing through that thing and have done so in rooms that were sizeable (say, 50'x40' w/ 30' ceiling) and never have the master volume past about 10 o'clock... and it sounds AMAZING! There's just no way that 60 watts and one 8" speaker should be able to do what that amp does...

Just sayin'... don't get sucked in to the advertising BS - trust your ears...

[jonfields45]

Power ratings are meaningless these days. I've done the rant before but:

In the old days, power was <5% distortion, 1 kHz sine wave, continuous. RMS (root of the mean squared) is just the necessary math for calculating power of a sine wave. It is the distortion limit, frequency, etc. of the output that supports a repeatable measurement. For the tube amps and simple analog transistor amps of the day, that was a useful, if miss leading true benchmark. Music is much more than a single tone and has a peak to average ratio of roughly 10 (but some instruments, like distorted electric guitar are much less). However, no one would claim a 40 watt S1 was as loud as a 40 watt Fender Super Reverb (which can easily cause permanent hearing damage). However, the S1 might win for undistorted acoustic guitar.

Today most power ratings are built around that 10:1 ratio and can the digital (switching) amp (and switching power supply) produce those peaks. There is no standardization of that methodology and otherwise fine products, like the 2 kW QSC powered speakers, are clearly fictional (speaker drivers are less than 10% efficient and 2 kW in a small box would get hotter than a toaster quickly).

Fairly common driver (the actual physical speaker) choices can be +/- 3 dB which equates to double to half the power in the sound you hear (though that said the Bose choices look relatively low efficiency not knowing any real details).

Bose's decision to not quote power is a lot more honest than QSC's 2 kW, but these days power numbers are pretty useless (imagine a 50 watt rating for a Roland product run by 8 AA batteries -- patently ridiculous).

There is no substitute with liberal return policies to giving it a try and sending it back if the lack of useful information forced you to try and fail.

[Chickee]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

There is no substitute with liberal return policies to giving it a try and sending it back if the lack of useful information forced you to try and fail.

Thank you jseth. I will keep an open mind and hopefully make a good decision.
Thank you jonfields45. All useful information and much appreciated. As you say, the worst thing that could happen is try, fail, return.

[rmp]

I have one of these, and what the others are saying about the power ratings, I would have to agree with.

I bought this to handle out side wedding services where power is not available.

Remember that this unit is position aware, so it will adjust some of the internal EQ based on where it's sitting, which is genius.

It seems to really shine when you mount it on a pole, and get it up off the floor. Not a lot of feed back even when positioning this directly behind you.
you will get some, but it is fairly resilient.

Watts wise; Someone had mentioned to me at one time, it is "Rated" at 40 watts, but I don't seem to find that in any of the listed specs so I can't confirm this.

If it IS 40watts, trust me, it punches way above what you would think something 40w would.


I also have a Fishman Loudbox Artist, this S1 holds it's own right along with that IMO. (rated at 120w)

I've also used the S1 slaved off the Artist using the MIX DI out from the Fishman to the S1 just to see how that sounded, in fact it worked really good. I was just practicing with it, but from the sound I was able to push in my living room, I can't imagine that would not be able to handle a small coffee house, or outdoor restaurant/lounge patio setting.

[Tico]

Originally Posted by lkingston

The S1 is rated at 40 Watts. ...

Source please.

BTW, if that 40 W is the power the amp produces that's only part of the equation.
Speaker efficiency is as important as amp power when determining max volume the system produces.
For the same input power one speaker can be twice as loud, or louder, than another.
Then power/volume is meaningless without also considering harmonic distortion produced to get that volume.

Back in my day you'd see specs for speaker efficiency.
Example: When driven with 1 watt it produces a sound pressure level of 96 dB at one meter in front of the speaker.
Since dB is logarithmic instead of linear, another speaker rated at 99 dB was twice as loud for the same input power.
IOW with a very efficient speaker you don't need an amp with a lot of power.

Huge speakers often were more efficient than smaller ones.
For instance, the massive Altec Lansing's Voice of the Theater, or the Klipschorn.
Speakers with ports were more efficient than those that were sealed.

It gets complex.
Unfortunately many jump to conclusions before bothering to learn much.
... and the more you learn the more you'll be annoyed by Bose's dumbed-down approach to describing their gear.
Still, even though I'm an old school spec geek I do appreciate the performance enough to buy and love my S1, and also have and love Bose's top of the line L1 Model 2 system.

[lkingston]