Tonedexter Review in Acoustic Guitar Magazine

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Have you tried the K&K or Amulet M before? Would like to know how the Dazzo compares in your opinion.

I've had numerous guitars with K&K's - but none with the Amulet M. The Dazzo's are far far superior to the K&K's, a much more articulate and Hi-fi sound, needing minimal EQ and without the bottom end boominess.

[BluesKing777]

I wonder what the new Baggs Align EQ pedal would be like AFTER the Tonedexter? I may try it. I know there are other better boxes, but the Align looks easy to ‘carve’ the EQ. I say AFTER the Tonedexter because I wouldn’t want to interfere with the guitar to preamp impedance match and success.

I mention this because, for example, my true plug and play Maton SRS808 in full electro flight has abright and clear tone, brighter than I would normally use but great for electrifying. As a test, I made a wavemap of the guitar and it is great, but the eq is very different. Really nice, really acoustic, but not as ‘bright’ as the Maton system, which has in-line sweepable mids...

Any other eq box suggestions?


BluesKing777.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by BluesKing777

I wonder what the new Baggs Align EQ pedal would be like AFTER the Tonedexter? I may try it. I know there are other better boxes, but the Align looks easy to ‘carve’ the EQ. I say AFTER the Tonedexter because I wouldn’t want to interfere with the guitar to preamp impedance match and success.

You could put the Align EQ in the ToneDexter's effects loop and it should work fine. You could also start with the Align, it's impedance is perfectly fine as the first stage for any acoustic pickup. But I'd think the effects loop would be the ideal place for it (or any effects pedal)

[BluesKing777]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

You could put the Align EQ in the ToneDexter's effects loop and it should work fine. You could also start with the Align, it's impedance is perfectly fine as the first stage for any acoustic pickup. But I'd think the effects loop would be the ideal place for it (or any effects pedal)

Thanks Doug!

I am a little unclear about the effects plug on the Tonedexter..... I already have 2 old eq pedals I have fiddled with in-line between the TD and my mixer (a old grey Fishman Platinum Pro and also a Behringer EQ). Works good in line.

What kind of lead do I need to use the TD effects plug? 1 stereo lead to where? Or a Y Lead?


BluesKing777.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by BluesKing777

Thanks Doug!

I am a little unclear about the effects plug on the Tonedexter..... I already have 2 old eq pedals I have fiddled with in-line between the TD and my mixer (a old grey Fishman Platinum Pro and also a Behringer EQ). Works good in line.

What kind of lead do I need to use the TD effects plug? 1 stereo lead to where? Or a Y Lead?


BluesKing777.

You need what's called an "insert cable". Pretty common for effects loops. It's just a TRS cable that splits to separate 1/4 inch plugs, like this: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...stp201-1-meter

[BluesKing777]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

You need what's called an "insert cable". Pretty common for effects loops. It's just a TRS cable that splits to separate 1/4 inch plugs, like this: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...stp201-1-meter

Thanks again!

I do have one of those.

I will try it, but earlier efforts with eq were abandoned - I don’t really need it. I was experimenting for the band players who want to carve themselves a spot in the mix. With the Fishman Platinum Pro, the temptation is just too much to add everything it has! That said, I think I would like something like the DBX (graphic) 31 band EQ! I use to use something like that in band PAs - test, test, test!

BluesKing777.

[shufflebeat]

If you do choose to use EQ then you would probably never need anything more sophisticated than the Boss GE7 on acoustic guitar.

7 band as implied, rock solid and not too expensive - a keeper anyway. It doesn't have anything you don't need (balanced out, level indicators, etc.) but has everything you do (on/off light, battery option, sounds good/quiet).

Insert it in the TD FX loop and Bob's yer Auntie Ann.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by AndyC

I've had numerous guitars with K&K's - but none with the Amulet M. The Dazzo's are far far superior to the K&K's, a much more articulate and Hi-fi sound, needing minimal EQ and without the bottom end boominess.

I've noticed that ToneDexter does a great job of compensating for a boomy pickup, provided the training mic is well placed during the WaveMap creation. Its an interesting question, though, as to whether TD might work even better with a pickup which needs little or no EQ correction (as with the Dazzos mentioned here) for a well-balanced tone. In my own TD adventures, I've gotten the best results with a pickup (the PUTW I/O UST) which needs no EQ adjustment with my Zoom A3 preamp and very little EQ adjustment with my old (1st generation) Fishman Platinum Pro EQ preamp.

[Chriscom]

I have a Rode NT1A and enough tinkering patience to say I think I would get very positive results from the Tonedexter, and indeed I may at some point. This discussion has brought the topic into focus for me. I'd use the Tonedexter when performing solo, especially not in a crazytime environment. I would probably use it with my duo partner (two vocals, guitar/keyboards). I would definitely not use it with a cover band we occasionally play break sets for--see above note re crazytime--and will probably be asked to add my acoustic guitar to their setup for a song or two (drummer, lead vocal guy, two electric guitars + me and maybe my duo pal). With a little more mixing education and experience I see how at least for mortals, an acoustic "my guitar but louder" goal is just not going to work there, at least not with me.

What a great time with all these choices!

[Vancebo]

TD questions:

If the sound is too natural for loud venues or with live bands, couldn’t that be fixed by rolling off some bass and employing the notch filter?

Once you are using the TD in live performance, if you tap on your guitar for a percussive effect, what comes out of the speaker? Does that percussive sound get transferred through the TD if it is on 100% TD signal? How about 100% pickup signal?

How about the same question above but with string squeaks?

[BluesKing777]

Band players pip in here, but I think you could use TDexter in a band situation if you have a nice sounding pickup, then add a small percentage via the blend control to get rid of any piezo quack. You will need access to a power point - not quite as plug and play as say, a Aura loaded Martin. (After you have created your wavemaps, you can leave all but the TD and your guitar leads, in and out, at home.

At home and recording I use about 3/4 on the Character dial and I can tell that live it could get twoiky. If you look at the total soundscape as a pie, you can use the whole pie at home. Add vocal and you get half the pie approx. add bass, drums, vocal, another guitar....you only get a 5th of the pie for your guitar sound.....and this is where ‘blending’ and ‘EQ’ become very important. (I have found it tricky to ‘hear’ and eq the ‘full character’ Tonedexter sounds as there is so much tone, that is just me....). But to eq a blend of say, 50% pickup is easier. You won’t get the full mic sound though.

Correct me if I am wrong, typing as I think here.


BluesKing777.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Vancebo

TD questions:

If the sound is too natural for loud venues or with live bands, couldn’t that be fixed by rolling off some bass and employing the notch filter?

You have a blend control now, that will let you mix between the "natural" sound and raw pickup. That should address most of this. You also have tone controls, of course.

Once you are using the TD in live performance, if you tap on your guitar for a percussive effect, what comes out of the speaker? Does that percussive sound get transferred through the TD if it is on 100% TD signal? How about 100% pickup signal?
How about the same question above but with string squeaks?

If your pickup picks up the tapping, then TD will reproduce it. You can think of ToneDexter as a very sophisticated EQ. It's not replacing your sound, it's just massaging it, so any noise you make will come thru. Percussion will sound like percussion, "EQ"d by TD. String squeaks will sound like string squeaks, with the same transformation TD does to any sound coming out of the pickup.

[BluesKing777]

I pressed record when playing my Martin D18E Retro and played similar chords and things but with each section of the recording done with a different bit of electronics and EQ box and settings.

1. Wavemap I like with Tonedexter...character on 3/4. (Aura off with undersaddle Fishman pickup on)

2. As above but with a cheapie 7 band Graphic EQ added (Behringer EQ700) got a bit of distortion so should have bought the xpensive eqn - first track all knobs flat EXCEPT I wound up the 6.4K to add 'glass'.

3. As in no 2. but with the classic 'smiley curve eq' setting. Level knob increased 5dB.

4. As in no 2. but with all knobs flat but removed bass with the 100k down 15 dB and the 200k down about 10dB. Level knob increased 5dB.

3. And 4. Not much on their own but probably fit in a band nicely...


Then.... some bonus tracks.....

5. Tonedexter on Full Bypass and the Martin Aura on Easy Mode no 1. (Myvtek Ribbon)

6. Tonedexter on Full Bypass and the Martin Aura on Performance Mode no 3. (50s RCA mic).




https://soundcloud.com/bk7-3/d18eand-td77c





BluesKing777.

[Marshall]

Just received my ToneDexter a couple of days ago. I spent some time with the manual. Nice and well documented. There are no diagrams. But with the TDex in my lap I had no trouble figuring out what they were talking about.

Earlier this evening I did my first trial WaveMap. I took my 1937 Kalamazoo KG-11 with a Schatten HFN SBT in it and ran that through the TDex. My mic is a Neumann KM184. And Voila ! The final wave map sound in the headphones was amazingly accurate to the raw microphone sound. AMAZING !

I haven't run the output through an amp yet. That'll happen soon. And tomorrow I'll set up my main guitar, a custom Nick Lucas clone, and give that a run with the Neumann in a couple positions, and probably Shure KSM32 as well.

I'm psyched. This sounds terrific. I'll try to take it out to an open mic on Tuesday and see how it performs in a live setting.

Looking good.

[Marshall]

One day later -

Well that's about as much fun as you can have with your pants on. . . . ,

I re-installed the Schatten HFN into my Nick Lucas. Then I plugged the guitar into my Schertler David amp to make sure it was working right. And it was. And it sounded great through the amp. No pedal. I remembered why I liked that pickup. But when I'd play it in some barroom settings it sounded much more harsh. That's why I moved into mag pickups.

So the pickup is working.

Then I plugged it into the ToneDexter. I set it up with the Neumann KM 184 and started to do a Wave Map. First thing I noticed in the headphones was the pickup DID sound harsh when heard naked. It seems my amp colors things warmer. Warmer than the real world. Plus in the headphones you hear all the not-so-nice nuances of a pickup. Then I let the ToneDexter correct the signal to match the Neumann. And Voila ! it worked great.

Then I decided to try another position for the mic. (First one pointed at teh 14th fret. Second one down low pointed at the lower bout). I compared the 2. I like the first one better.

THEN I realized I had missed a step in the creation process. Its recommended that you first try both polarities on the phase switch and use the one that has the best bass. I had not done that. When I flipped the phase switch back and forth, I decided I had not used the best sounding one. So, I decided to redo my previous Wave Maps.

I redid WaveMap 1 (Neumann @ 14th fret). That turned out great.

Then for comparison, I swapped out the Neumann for my Shure KSM32 and did another Wave Map (14th fret) with that mic.

And you know the amazing part is the two wave maps are different. And exactly as different as the mic characteristics. The Neumann is clear and trebly and harrsh (not harsh like the pickup). Whereas the Wave Map with the Shure KSM32 is warmer and rounder and less articulate (slightly muddier). YOU CAN ACTUALLY TELL, WHEN YOU PLAY BACK IN A CERTAIN WAVE MAP, WHICH MIC YOU USED TO CREATE THE MAP ! It's exactly how I would characterize each mic.

AWESOME.

And then as a final test, I played the Nick Lucas through the first Wave Map I had made for the Kalamazoo KG-11, just to see how it would treat that sound. The result was not very good. It didn't make the Nick Lucas sound like a ladder braced Kalamazoo. It wasn't an awful sound. But it wasn't right. So the idea of creating a Wingert recording Wave map and running your Yamaha through it will not get you the desired result. This device really just trains the guitar pickup signal to sound very much like the same guitar with a microphone. A very specific microphone.

So that went very well. My next adventure will be to take it out to a bar (likely tomorrow night) and plug it through a house system. (Tomorrow night's expected stop will be a crummy system. Nice people. But mediocre sound set up).

We shall see how that goes.