Poll: LR Baggs pickups change acoustic tone?

[MrErikJ]

This is such a hard phenomena to confirm. I use the LB6 in several of my guitars and one of them is a Colosi custom-LB6 with a bone saddle. The Colosi LB6 replaced the SRT piezo in my Yamaha LL16 and sounds much better amplified than the SRT. However, the acoustic sound seemed slightly brighter and more sustaining with the cheap plastic saddle that was in place before. I have standard, micarta-saddled, LB6s in other guitars and haven't perceived a tonal change in my cedar-topped dread but my classical seemed to warm-up slightly with it installed. More interestingly, I observed an increase in low-mids and less sustain with the Colosi LB6 in my Yamaha. I think, much like Taylor, Yamaha might prefer a slightly softer saddle material such as micarta to the more popular bone saddle.

I don't doubt replacing the saddle with a unitary saddle-piezo unit will effect the transfer of vibration in some way, just as putting piezo material between the saddle and bridge will do the same. However, what I've learned from this, there's no guarantee of how that's going to alter your tone nor is any material selection a guarantee of increased tonal quality.

[Vancebo]

I have installed the soft braided cord type piezo material in several guitars. Not only the Baggs, but systems by DTAR and Highlander too. I feel there has always been a slight change acoustically. Not always for the worse. It made my Bright Taylor warmer in a good way and killed some volume in a Collings. It’s all in the user’s perception weather it’s good or bad. It’s always been slight and I could always live with them after. At least it’s not been the reason I sold the guitar or removed a Baggs pickup from a guitar.

[Petty1818]

I think the fact that Baggs employees have confirmed there is often a change is enough proof for me. I installed the SL in my Taylor and noticed a drop in volume but I had also switched to a new saddle material and the saddle height was changed. I think if there is a change, it's very slight.

With that said, I have never noticed a change with the Fishman Matrix. I don't get why the Anthem doesn't just use a harder UST material? I know there's probably more to it but considering the fact that most people use a blend of mostly the tru-mic, then the UST tone is probably not all that crucial.

[doublescale1]

I acquired a new-to-me 4 year old Martin D-15 that came with no pickup. I had the shop install an Anthem SL, the one with the blend slider and vol that attaches to the inside of the sound hole. It was a remarkably natural sounding pickup, the guitar sounded like itself plugged in or not. I used that guitar with a Roland AC90, Rivera Sedona 55, and a Line6 L2T FRFR monitor and it sounded great through any of them. YMMV.

[Groberts]

Whether Baggs employees or others say there is a small change or not, ...that does not alter my opinion or personal experience. (3 Anthem PU installations to date)

Given a choice, I prefer not to install anything between the saddle and bridge. So I get it. But I need to play my acoustics amplified. I have had (3) Baggs Anthem PU installations that were all professionally installed by very skilled local luthiers. I bought each of those guitars based on how incredible they sounded acoustically;

Collings OM2H Cutaway - Madascar RW/German Spruce
Collings OM1A (Adi/Hog)
Martin D-18 (2015 Sitka/Hog),
All of them sounded great after the installation. If there was any change, it was so small it just didn't matter. I didn't honestly notice any change. None of my guitars were 'missing' anything in terms of tone, presence or volume after the Anthems were in the guitars. Furthermore, I LOVE how the Anthem makes the guitar sound so natural once the guitar when amplified.

So all factors considered, the overall GOOD is significantly greater than any compromise that may or may not exist.

I also submit the notion that its easy to buy into the philosophical idea that installing anything between the saddle and bridge is going to diminish the acoustic property of the guitar. The notion is fundamentally logical and I wouldn't do it unless it was necessary. Well, it was necessary and I have no personal regrets. I've recorded my guitars acoustically several times and I get Great recordings that allow me to listen back objectively.

Bottom line for me; I love Baggs Anthem's. They do not kill the magic in any of my guitars. Any differences, if they exist are very very small. (And I don't hear it)

[Groberts]

Anthem plugged in. Here is a video I of a sound check I did last night before. I don't have a recording of the guitar unplugged to share as a point of reference, but it is incredible unplugged. and there it is plugged in.

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

With that said, I have never noticed a change with the Fishman Matrix. I don't get why the Anthem doesn't just use a harder UST material?

There is no reason to believe that the polymer piezo materials in the Matrix and Element are actually different (they are both probably polyvinylidene fluoride). The Element has its roots in traffic light systems where it is embedded in asphalt to detect the passing of cars. It is really tough stuff. The Matrix is wrapped in foil for one of its conductors. As designed the Matrix is brittle and fragile. The Matrix has only the visual illusion of being harder. They are both probably quite similar in hardness under saddle pressure.

All said, I harbor a prejudice that the Matrix is a better sounding UST, but the Mi-Si no battery preamp comes with an Element, and it's an Element in my performing guitar. I hate battery death at a gig and my other guitar with the K&K is just not as easy to deal with in noisy restaurants doing classic rock covers in a duo.

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

There is no reason to believe that the polymer piezo materials in the Matrix and Element are actually different (they are both probably polyvinylidene fluoride). The Element has its roots in traffic light systems where it is embedded in asphalt to detect the passing of cars. It is really tough stuff. The Matrix is wrapped in foil for one of its conductors. As designed the Matrix is brittle and fragile. The Matrix has only the visual illusion of being harder. They are both probably quite similar in hardness under saddle pressure.

All said, I harbor a prejudice that the Matrix is a better sounding UST, but the Mi-Si no battery preamp comes with an Element, and it's an Element in my performing guitar. I hate battery death at a gig and my other guitar with the K&K is just not as easy to deal with in noisy restaurants doing classic rock covers in a duo.

I love the LED battery indicator in the Anthem. Push the recessed button to see how many LED's show battery strength in the side of the sound hole control ring.
I am getting about 4-6 months from a 9V in the Anthem. And its easy to deterimine if I need to change the battery before a show. So that is simply a non issue for me.

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by Groberts

I love the LED battery indicator in the Anthem. Push the recessed button to see how many LED's show battery strength in the side of the sound hole control ring.
I am getting about 4-6 months from a 9V in the Anthem. And its easy to deterimine if I need to change the battery before a show. So that is simply a non issue for me.

Minimum stuff and no battery. I'm sure a good psychiatrist could recommend a medication to get me over that obsession!

[rfalcon]

Slightly improved. I added the SL to an old Applause 12 string, and I think it gave a slightly fuller tone which I liked - almost like a change in string gauge. Not much difference other than that.

[martingitdave]

At this moment the poll suggests only about 30% of players reported a degradation in tone.

[stevecuss]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

At this moment the poll suggests only about 30% of players reported a degradation in tone.

Yep.

I'll just reiterate a strong 'your mileage may vary.' Too many variables to make any sort of 'rule' out of this one including the hardest to determine variable, 'did the tone come back after a period of saddle settling?'

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

At this moment the poll suggests only about 30% of players reported a degradation in tone.

Similar to the percentage of people reporting side effects for a sugar pill in a double blind drug test. This is just a fact of the interaction of human expectation and reality.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

Similar to the percentage of people reporting side effects for a sugar pill in a double blind drug test. This is just a fact of the interaction of human expectation and reality.

Agreed. It looks like I am going to be conducting my own experiment this weekend. I took one of my instruments to a reputable shop to have an Anthem system installed. They were trying to get a Fishman system installed but they didn’t feel it would work well with the long saddle (same as my personal install experience) and I opted not to have the bridge routed to accommodate it. So Anthem it is. Since I had the guitar a while, I should be able to tell what difference is made with the pickup install. Regardless, it should be a good solution for my gigs.

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Agreed. It looks like I am going to be conducting my own experiment this weekend. I took one of my instruments to a reputable shop to have an Anthem system installed. They were trying to get a Fishman system installed but they didn’t feel it would work well with the long saddle (same as my personal install experience) and I opted not to have the bridge routed to accommodate it. So Anthem it is. Since I had the guitar a while, I should be able to tell what difference is made with the pickup install. Regardless, it should be a good solution for my gigs.

Dave, sent you a reply PM. Hit me back when you have time. Email is best if possible.

Can't wait to hear your review. I will record some current "acoustic/unplugged" videos of my D-18 with the Baggs Anthem so you can hear it unplugged.