Help with K & K mini

[Marty C]

I have a k & k mini in a Martin D-16GT. Seems no matter what I plug into, it sounds bad. I have a $500 Martin 000 X Series with a low end Fishman UST. This sounds much better than the K & K. More crisp and clean. The D-16 sounds great unplugged, but I can't get it to sound good at all plugged in. Way too honky. Any suggestions? I tried all the processors/preamps I normally would use (TC helicon Play acoustic, Baggs para DI, Baggs Gigpro and older boss acoustic processors) but no improvement. Different Fishman amps and still just don't like it. If I get the volume up at all, it picks up every click or thump of my pick hitting the springs or my hand hitting the guitar body.

Any ideas on strings, preamps or processors for improvements or is the pickup bad. It sounds good coming through a sound board with headphones, but once amplified, not good.

[Irish Pennant]

Look to see where it's installed and make sure the transducers (?) are in the right positions and installed cleanly. If you don't know where the right positions are, look on the K&K web site.

I have a "Lawsuit" era Takamine, it's D18 clone with a K&K PWM pickup. This guitar just never sounded right until I improved the setup, changed the strings to D'Addario Phos Bronze custom light (11's) and pugged it into my Genz Benz Shenandoah 85. I now like it's tone. I tried the PADI and K&K PWM preamp into my mixer and could not get a good tone.

I have a Zoom A3 that works well with the K&K guitar. Sometimes I'll take the guitar and Zoom out to open mic and they seem to sound ok on different amp/pa's.

[ljguitar]

Hi Marty

Are the K&K taped in or glued in?

Have you tried putting it through an acoustic amp?

If it sounds good through the board, then the breakdown is somewhere beyond that point it would seem.

[donh]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

If it sounds good through the board, then the breakdown is somewhere beyond that point it would seem.

this
.

[pieterh]

I would also recommend checking positioning though I have heard Pure Minis that are supposedly sitting correctly that have a pronounced mid-range honk.

As Larry asks, are the sensors taped or glued? And if glued, are they sitting properly, i.e. Is the glue bond tight? A loose sensor or two will still give signal but it won't be as totally balanced as it should be. I suspect this may be the case especially as you say the system is picking up a lot of handling noise relative to string signal.

If all else fails, use a sweep or parametric eq set to boost and sweep through the mids until the offending frequencies jump out at you, then turn down the gain right there. Won't be perfect but should help a lot.

[Marty C]

Thanks for the help guys. Looks like the sensors are glued in and firm in place.

I started with the most simple this morning. I had put Martin Retro strings on and this morning I changed to D'Addario's new Nickel Bronze strings and much of the honkiness is improved. From is point I can adjust further for improvements.

Any experience with the K & K pure preamp? I wonder if this would give added improvement?

[YamaYairi]

I use a Radial PZ Pre Deluxe preamp with my KK Mini installed in a Yamaha L6. I have to cut the midrange and bass with the preamp. Then it sounds pretty good. When I play through my Fishman Loudbox Mini I have to do the same thing to get good sound.
It is normal for the pickup to pick up body sounds. That's going to happen with any under bridge or under saddle pickup. If you don't want body sounds you should get a sound hole pickup.
If you want to get a much more natural sound with a pickup that sounds like your guitar with minimal EQ, I suggest the LR Baggs I Beam Active. I have one in my Larrivee OM and it sounds more natural than any other pickup I have heard.

[Marty C]

After further test, I feel the two high strings don't have the volume that the two low strings do. If I try to increase the eq in the high area, it makes it brighter but not louder. I think my problem might lie on the pickup.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Marty C

…Any experience with the K & K pure preamp? I wonder if this would give added improvement?

Hi Marty C

I find that any decent preamp will improve the sound of a guitar equipped with a K&K Pure Mini pickup over not using a preamp.

You said you already eliminated "…TC helicon Play acoustic, Baggs para DI, Baggs Gigpro and older boss acoustic processors…" and some Fishman amps, so I don't know what to recommend.

I own 7 or 8 different preamps, plus a K&K preamp, and don't find it any better than others. I have even played with a K&K Quantum and it was as good as others, not better. It sounds like you need something with good adjustment in the midrange (if honky is in the mid-range).

Decent and highly adjustable preamps start at $120 and go up to $1000 (or more) adding channels and more parametric ranges as they go up in price.

The gear we play through has as much impact on the sound as the pickup and guitar.

Something which has helped me setup my live sound over the years is to involve my gigging partner's ears in the adjustments. I can play while he listens, and he can play while I listen so I get away from the rig to get a new perspective. I also sometimes even hook a looper up, record a few minutes music in different styles, start it and walk away to tweak.

Hope you get things worked out to your satisfaction…

[JLS]

[QUOTE=Marty C;4817366]After further test, I feel the two high strings don't have the volume that the two low strings do. If I try to increase the eq in the high area, it makes it brighter but not louder. I think my problem might lie on the pickup.[/QUOTE

Sounds to me like an installation issue.

[Johnny.guitar]

I have 2 guitars with K&K minis installed. I have a hard time with the mids as well. Just not a pleasing frequency. I've run them through a Red Eye and a Para DI and still can't quite get it right. If I back the mids off to get rid of it then it gets too muddy without enough definition. For now I'm using an M1 instead and I'm reasonably happy with it. I may run them together at some point but I like to keep things simple(less to go wrong at a gig). So your not alone with the eq issues of the K&K.

[Marty C]

Thanks Johnny. I also have an M1 in another guitar. Easy to pull out and try in my Martin.

I keep hearing things about impedance mismatch and will try K&k pure preamp. That's my last hope. It's not horrible, just not what I want to hear. My guitar sounds too good unplugged to accept anything less.

Anyone using an MXR 10-band eq with acoustic. Maybe make a different thread for that question.

[simondylan]

Originally Posted by Marty C

I have a k & k mini in a Martin D-16GT. Seems no matter what I plug into, it sounds bad. I have a $500 Martin 000 X Series with a low end Fishman UST. This sounds much better than the K & K. More crisp and clean. The D-16 sounds great unplugged, but I can't get it to sound good at all plugged in. Way too honky. Any suggestions? I tried all the processors/preamps I normally would use (TC helicon Play acoustic, Baggs para DI, Baggs Gigpro and older boss acoustic processors) but no improvement. Different Fishman amps and still just don't like it. If I get the volume up at all, it picks up every click or thump of my pick hitting the springs or my hand hitting the guitar body.

Any ideas on strings, preamps or processors for improvements or is the pickup bad. It sounds good coming through a sound board with headphones, but once amplified, not good.

Just from your description it sounds like you're wanting a sound board transducer to act more like an under-saddle transducer. The K&K is a soundboard transducer which is very micro-phonic by nature! You're supposed to hear every little click and thump of the guitar body! The honky sound you described could be one of 3 or 4 things: Poor installation, sound system, misplaced expectations, EQ settings, or a combination of all that including the guitar itself! Not sure the best way to help you but I can safely say that in most cases if the K&K pickup is installed right you're gonna be pretty satisfied. They aren't the be all end all, but they're pretty good and pretty safe! Best thing to do would probably be to go through a process of elimination one by one. You should be able to get a good sound with any of the preamps you mentioned so try not to fall into the thinking that another one is going to fix your issue. In the end it might just be that that pickup is not a good match for that model of guitar. It happens!