Help needed achieving guitar tone

[boing]

Wow that would be great, thanks!

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by boing

Wow that would be great, thanks!

As close as I could get to the sound you wanted to copy.

http://dcoombsguitar.com/Misc/AGFFlanger.wav

Your recording was much darker so I used a lot of frequency equalization. Also I used the delay Doug pointed out, plus I used a flanger (not a very good done)
for the doubling sound effect. A little more time on equalization and a better flanger and it would be smoother and you would get fairly close.

[boing]

Thank you. I'm sorry for the dark recording, I actually was not expecting any work to be done to this track so I did not make so much of an effort to brighten it up. Sounds nice. I have an analog chorus and flanger, which one should I use to create the doubling effect (assuming that is what the original example exhibits)?

I also learned that the song was recorded here:

http://realestate.lohudblogs.com/201...o-is-for-sale/

Seems like it was definitely done in an "open space" and possibly a unique recording environment.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by boing

Thank you. I'm sorry for the dark recording, I actually was not expecting any work to be done to this track so I did not make so much of an effort to brighten it up. Sounds nice. I have an analog chorus and flanger, which one should I use to create the doubling effect (assuming that is what the original example exhibits)?

I also learned that the song was recorded here:

http://realestate.lohudblogs.com/201...o-is-for-sale/

Seems like it was definitely done in an "open space" and possibly a unique recording environment.

Lovely recording space. On their original first recording the lower frequencies are fairly clean while the upper frequencies have the doubling echo like effect. On your recording I worked on two copies. On one I pass through the lower end (equalized) and on the other the higher end. On the lower one I pretty much left it alone other than equalizing out the lower, lower end.
On the high one I did further equalization, added a delay, a flanger, and some reverb.

Not sure a flanger, with it's frequency modulation, is the cleanest way to go. Essentially you need a software plugin with a combination of delay plus a feedback loop on the delay. I do not have one of those. Good luck with experimenting.

[boing]

Rick, when you were EQ'ing this track for me, did you dip frequencies significantly around 200 Hz?

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by boing

Rick, when you were EQ'ing this track for me, did you dip frequencies significantly around 200 Hz?

I don't remember.

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by RRuskin

Call me old fashioned but if I got a sound like that, I'd go looking to see what broke in my recording chain.

I'm also old fashioned. +1

Regards,

Ty Ford

[boing]

As a novice here, I assume you all think that the distant miking technique as determined in my example sounds poorly done, and a sound I'm being warned against striving for. How would you record an open tuned guitar with lots of drones in the "old fashioned" way? In other words, what would you change to make this track a better recording if you were starting over?

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by boing

As a novice here, I assume you all think that the distant miking technique as determined in my example sounds poorly done, and a sound I'm being warned against striving for. How would you record an open tuned guitar with lots of drones in the "old fashioned" way? In other words, what would you change to make this track a better recording if you were starting over?

There's nothing special about recording open tuned, droning guitar. The way to achieve guitar recordings that sound like the guitar are pretty well known: single mic near the neck/body joint, stereo XY, ORTF or spaced pairs, MS, etc. You can find lots of info in other threads here, or just by searching for things like "recording acoustic guitar"

I think most of us commenting on this thread are attracted to the acoustic guitar because we like the way it sounds in real life, so we prefer recordings that reflect that and capture the natural sound of the guitar. That's a contrast to the approach often used in pop recordings, where its more common to try to massage sounds in all kinds of weird ways, twisting and mangling them to create a sound that catches your ear, even if that means getting a trashy sound. In fact, there are all kinds of recording effects these days deliberate meant to "trash" your sounds. So this may just be a matter of taste. If that guitar sounds good to you, then that's great - if you are making music, use whatever sounds you think work. But if your goal is to capture the natural sound of an acoustic guitar, then this track isn't a very good role model. It shouldn't be hard to find a good example of an acoustic guitar, well recorded.

[boing]

Very well explained, Doug. I'm definitely not going for a sound that will purposely distort the natural sound of an acoustic guitar, and I always wondered why this particular track never sounded "quite right" to me, although a still liked it, I was interested in what people possibly did to make it sound like that, but now realize the the track was purposely manipulated and to you folks, does not sound natural at all. I always thought it was either some type of weird guitar used, or another "post production" trick, because I think I can get a much cleaner recording than theirs with my own equipment, but does not sound anything like it. More natural? I don't know, I think so, I'll give it another whirl and see what you all think of my effort, if interested.

[Doug Young]

Well, just going back to your original recording you posted, I think it sounds a lot better than the commercial recording. But at the same time, there's some funny stuff in it, too. It sounds like it was probably recorded in an untreated room, and seems to have some phasey things going on. I don't see how to download the track from soundcloud, so I can't look at it in any more detail, but I'd suggest learning a bit about room acoustics, perhaps adding some sound panels, and experimenting with various standard micing techniques. What mic(s) are you using, where are you recording, and how?

[boing]

Doug, I built a sound booth (5x7 feet) and it has acoustical foam treatment and a hardwood floor, so the room is pretty much dead sounding. I figured I could introduce life to recordings with a good reverb unit.

Anyway, those phase issues in the first track I uploaded were probably due to an improper stereo mic configuration. Here is a new track, and the recording chain is Taylor 816ce > Single Beyer MC930 angled off axis at fret 14, about 8 inches away > Apogee Quartet. There is no compression/eq/effects/reverb added. Any thoughts on this one? Let me know if you'd like to download it as I arrange for that as well. Thanks.

https://soundcloud.com/user401199165/track-1-001

[Doug Young]

Hmm, no effects? I hear something, a flanger or chorus? Some kind of metallic ringing. Maybe it's just buzzing strings. Listening again, I'm less thinking I'm hearing chorus, but theres something odd about the sound. It also doesn't sound mono - are you doing something to turn the one mic into stereo. I'm not sure recording in a tiny, totally dead booth the best idea for guitar. A *lot* of the sound of a guitar is the way it interacts with a room. You don't want bad resonances, but also don't want totally dead, usually.

Being able to download is always preferable. Soundcloud is streaming low quality playback, and there's no way to load the track into a DAW for any analysis tools.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by boing

Doug, I built a sound booth (5x7 feet) and it has acoustical foam treatment and a hardwood floor, so the room is pretty much dead sounding. I figured I could introduce life to recordings with a good reverb unit.

Anyway, those phase issues in the first track I uploaded were probably due to an improper stereo mic configuration. Here is a new track, and the recording chain is Taylor 816ce > Single Beyer MC930 angled off axis at fret 14, about 8 inches away > Apogee Quartet. There is no compression/eq/effects/reverb added. Any thoughts on this one? Let me know if you'd like to download it as I arrange for that as well. Thanks.

https://soundcloud.com/user401199165/track-1-001

With a small booth like that you are getting a lot of phase issue reflections. The acoustic foam you are using is not enough acoustic damping to prevent that. In a way the raw recording sound closer to the sound you wanted than the first recording is. However the main problem is that the sound is not clean (in this clip or in your original recording), and especially in the lower frequencies, so it is hard to work on to take it further without getting total mush. Get a clean, clear dry recording and then tweak that.

Here is a downloadable file for anyone interested: http://dcoombsguitar.com/Misc/AGFTEMP.wav

[Ty Ford]

[QUOTE=Doug Young;4150994Being able to download is always preferable. Soundcloud is streaming low quality playback, and there's no way to load the track into a DAW for any analysis tools.[/QUOTE]

Doug,

You're right about the quality issue, but there's also trick #432. I have the audio output of my Mac set up so it feeds channels 3-4 on my Digi 003R. I can route anything I stream to those inputs and capture it in Pro Tools very easily.

To the OP. It's very easy for some folks to become enamored of certain effects especially early on. I had a friend who was ga-ga about the sound of his guitar recorded in a certain stair well in his house. It sounded very different because of all of the reflections, but the end result was really pretty nasty to listen to.

Then there's "Under The Milky Way" with tons of reverb on the guitar (and pretty much everything else). It was a hit. So there's your argument for "more reverb."

As long as you're not using it to cover up for your own performance concerns (and that's something a LOT of non-professional people do), e.g. "I'm a little insecure about my voice, so I'll swamp it in reverb." That does nothing to improve the vocal track and is a "tell" that you're overly insecure about your voice or whatever you're dumping reverb on.

I think Part B of your question was about the alternate tuning. If you're trying to mimic someone else's sound then using the tuning they used will get you part of the way there. The other part is how they play the instrument and what the arrangement is. Little Feat's "Easy To Slip" has been a favorite fo mine for many years. It's the whole band playing full on and I think Lowell is playing in open G. Even if I tried to replicate what he did on that song, I could never get there even if I had the right tuning. Plus, it's a pretty dense mix with background vocals and the kitchen sink.

MY approach was to break it down so that I could do it solo and still have it make sense. I found the chords on line and started from there to build a solo guitar arrangement that I was happy with. I'm about 90% there due to my own limitations, but I like it better than the Bob Weir version.

Here's the Little Feat Version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAtYCDKWrvA

Regards,

Ty Ford

PS: Sure wish Lowell George hadn't gone home so soon.