HELP_Gosh I hate the fffffffffff!!!!

Farhad · #1 10-19-2013, 06:00 PM

Hi guys

Is this what the call white noise? static?? or what ever it is called.

The ever annoying background noise you get from you condenser microphone. In my case it is just not quiet. It doesn't sound like a desert storm but still enough to really take the joy out of recording. I can get rid of it by bringing the noise gate all the way up (killing just about everything else also).

I have a sE Electronics, running straight to Apogee Duet 2. If I reduce the input level it becomes less but then the level would be too low for a good recording. The noise can also be reduced by brining the output level of the channel down. But then again it will affect the overall level of the recording.

Anyone have an an idea how to get rid of this?
What is causing this? is it the microphone? cables?

Thanks for advice.

MikeBmusic · #2 10-19-2013, 07:07 PM

What level are you recording at? With digital recording you can record between -18dB and -12dB and have plenty enough signal AND headroom for mixing. Many people make the mistake of thinking they have to record as near to 0dB as they can.

YamaYairi · #3 10-19-2013, 07:53 PM

I am not familiar with the Apogee Duet 2. I went to the website but it wasn't clear to me what you have control over with it. For example, when recording with a mixer, for lowest noise and best immunity from overloading the input, you should turn the output full up, and the mic inputs full up, then use the preamp input gain controls to set the levels so at the loudest signal it is just at 0dB on the meter. I don't know if you can do this on the Apogee Duet 2, but if you can, try it. Also see if the noise goes away when you unplug the mic. If so, the problem is the mic and you need a better mic. Garbage in, garbage out. It doesn't even have to be an expensive mic, I don't get this noise with my Audio Technica AT-813 mics, although there are expensive mics that sound better, but the AT813's sound pretty darn good and the ones that sound better cost a whole lot more. I have a pair of AKG C414's on loan from a friend and yes, they sound fantastic, don't have noise and I will use them as long as he lets me.

Farhad · #4 10-20-2013, 01:41 AM

Thanks for your input.

Garageband, Apogee Maestro give a couple of input level control options.

1) you have a recording level for each channel in Garageband. The unit is %.
2) you have a virtual mixer in Maestro where you can adjust, mic (there I am at about -15 db).
3) you have a Software Return.
4) you have a master mixer

when I unplugg the mic the sound goes away.

Really at levels which would allow an acceptable recording, there is a constant signal in the mic channel gain at about -36 db which is the level of this static noise.

The mic is set at -10 db (you can choose between -10 and 0).

I may also add that on the other channel I have the K&K mini plugged in. That one is quiet.

frankhond · #5 10-20-2013, 05:20 AM

Could it be that you have the mic set to low gain, the maestro set to low gain and then you bring all that up in garageband including the noise? Have you tried the mic at 0, the maestro at 0 and then adjust levels in garageband?

RustyAxe · #6 10-20-2013, 07:58 AM

Gain structure is the likely issue ... take out the -10db pad on the mic. Your input level should average around -12db. The thing is to get as much gain without clipping as early in the chain as possible. If your levels are too low you'll have a bad signal to noise ratio, and the noise on input will be amplified in every subsequent gain stage.

RodB · #7 10-20-2013, 08:41 AM

Presumably you have tried reversing the inputs to verify it is the mic not the channel? Sorry if I state the obvious.

FWIW I use SE Electronics 2200a mics and don't have any issues with noise - Mic set at 0dB into Mackie Onyx Blackjack interface

YamaYairi · #8 10-20-2013, 09:27 AM

Definitely take out the 10dB pad on the mic.
Is the Master Mixer the Windows mixer for the soundcard? Or is it part of Garage Band or Maestro?
Is it linked to other software? For example in Audacity there is a record level control and as I recall if you increase the record level in the Windows mixer, the record level in Audacity moves also. If they are not linked I would turn the Master Mixer up full on the mic channel, turn the recording level up full in Garageband, and use the mic control to set your level.

ukejon · #9 10-20-2013, 09:37 AM

Tell us specifically which model mic you have. And yes indeed take out the -10db pad.

Farhad · #10 10-20-2013, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodB

Presumably you have tried reversing the inputs to verify it is the mic not the channel? Sorry if I state the obvious.

FWIW I use SE Electronics 2200a mics and don't have any issues with noise - Mic set at 0dB into Mackie Onyx Blackjack interface - example

Ohh...two Mcilroys. I am in good company. You can imagine how irritating it can get when you are recording a beautiful sounding AS25.

Thanks for your suggestion. The problem is definitely from the mic. Mic out and no sound. Mic to the other channel = same problem.

In Maestro the noise reads at about -36 db.

thanx

Farhad · #11 10-20-2013, 01:00 PM

Thanks YamaYairi and Ukejon for your kind responses.

The mic is SE X1. I gladly upgrade if this device is causing the problems.

Can you please explain what you mean by "taking out" the -10 db pad?

I have tried both 0 and -10. The background noise is a bit less in -10 than 0 when adjusting on the mic.

Recording level is at about 85% in Garageband and the input level is -15db.
Output level on the channel is -10db.

I am very keen on testing your suggestion regarding the -10db pad.

/F

D. Churchland · #12 10-20-2013, 01:18 PM

Less of a techy suggestion....

Maybe the mic is picking up the Air Conditioner hiss?

RodB · #13 10-20-2013, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will Kirk

....Maybe the mic is picking up the Air Conditioner hiss?

+1....I'm not an expert when it comes to recording - I'm sure others can get more into the detail - but perhaps Will has a point, as the -10dB on the mic does cut some hiss?

Yes, must be frustrating when you want to capture the sound of such a guitar...

Doug Young · #14 10-20-2013, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will Kirk

Less of a techy suggestion....

Maybe the mic is picking up the Air Conditioner hiss?

Yep, I suspect Will is on the right track. The mic would have to be defective to produce that much noise (possible). But the biggest issue with home recording is usually environmental noise. Air conditioning, traffic, refrigerator, TV, etc. Mics pick up everything. The noise will seem to go down if you pad the mic, because you're turning it down. But you're also turning down the guitar, so that doesn't help. The solutions are things like:

Turn off the source of the noise
Isolate yourself from the noise - find a different room, build sound baffles
Mic closer to the guitar so the guitar is louder relative to the noise
Play louder
Use noise reduction software

Posting an example of your recording would make it far more likely that people can give you suggestions that are on target instead of having to guess.

Farhad · #15 10-20-2013, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Yep, I suspect Will is on the right track. The mic would have to be defective to produce that much noise (possible). But the biggest issue with home recording is usually environmental noise. Air conditioning, traffic, refrigerator, TV, etc. Mics pick up everything. The noise will seem to go down if you pad the mic, because you're turning it down. But you're also turning down the guitar, so that doesn't help. The solutions are things like:

Turn off the source of the noise
Isolate yourself from the noise - find a different room, build sound baffles
Mic closer to the guitar so the guitar is louder relative to the noise
Play louder
Use noise reduction software

Posting an example of your recording would make it far more likely that people can give you suggestions that are on target instead of having to guess.

Hi guys

I followed Dough's advice:

I couldn't turn off the ventilation system (for some strange reason my wife thinks that is more important than my recordings!!

There is a noise reduction system built in Garageband but frankly it sucks.

Moving the mic closer to the guitar and playing louder as Dough suggested did bring it all to a bearable level (0 db on the mic and by the way turning off the low cut base filter did have a positive impact. Input level -15db).

I just put up a recording on Youtube with the current situation. There is a little air in there but I guess you should be happy with this considering the price of the mic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjsKoFnJNQQ

I still didn't get what was meant by "taking out" the pad on a mic? is that like another way of saying choosing it or not choosing it?

Soon the Lowden with the LR Baggs Lyric and the M1 combined will arrive. I am hoping that would sound awesome when directly plugged into the Apogee.

Thank you so much you all!

Dough we are so privileged to have you in this forum.