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#1
01-22-2017, 09:36 PM
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Arch tops.....where to start?
So the Epiphone Masterbilt Century stuff has got my interest really piqued.
But since there aren't any anywhere near me to play, and it seems opinions on them are very divided... What is the arch top that has your heart? Where does one start if they've never taken the plunge into those particular waters? 
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#3
01-22-2017, 10:02 PM
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While a 335 is an awesome guitar, I guess I should be more specific:
I'm talking (in particular) about full-hollow acoustic arch tops, not semi-hollow or solid body arch top guitars. Like this one: http://c1.zzounds.com/media/fit,2018...c56d0ab7bc.jpg
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#5
01-22-2017, 10:04 PM
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You might want to repost this on the Archtop forum...
__________________
"Mistaking silence for weakness and contempt for fear is the final, fatal error of a fool" - Sicilian proverb (paraphrased)
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#6
01-22-2017, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Also, I did not realize there was an arch top dedicated forum.... So. I guess I could post this there 
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#7
01-23-2017, 11:09 AM
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I have one of the new Olympics. I also have a 1950 ES125. Neither are close comparisons to a 1930s acoustic archtop. But I like the Olympic. It has a tolerable acoustic archtop vibe and is really quite versatile tone-wise. From the advertising I am seeing it seems Epiphone intends these new archtops for a broader musical base than what the traditional notion of an archtop being just for chunking out jazz rhythm and chord Melodies. In the mass market that Epiphone serves, the compromises make sense. There is enough archtop vibe there to satisfy the desires of most, while allowing for a good variety of tone that can reasonably accommodate a broad range of musical style, especially for the singer songwriter/Americana/Blues types. Pure archtop, the new Epiphones are not. Likeable variation on the traditional acoustic archtop.... I think so. I do, however, think that Epiphone priced these guitars beyond their value points. For the current pricing, these should include the hardshell cases. That would bring the value-per-dollar much more comparable to the rest of the Epiphone line of guitars. If I were wanting a pure acoustic archtop like those old L5s, the Loar LH 300, 600, or 700 is the best bet. In another 75 years, folks might be raving about how great those are.....maybe even with these new Epiphones. Who knows.
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#8
01-23-2017, 11:16 AM
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Yeah, it seems like Epiphone is really marketing these new archtops to the roots/songwriter type vibe...which is cool, but as a jazz player, I'd like to see makers pitch to the traditional archtop sound a bit more...but I realize I'm a small market.
I completely agree on the Loars...they're the real deal. They might need a little work to play right, but they've got great "raw materials." Eastman's are lovely too, but to my ears, they do NOT do the 1930's thing...they're much more modern and "polite" sounding.
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#9
01-23-2017, 11:28 AM
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1930's L5 is the archetype.
__________________
"Vintage taste, reissue budget"
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#10
01-23-2017, 11:37 AM
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Jeff Matz, just above, has some good comments and from listening to his music over the years, I certainly respect his opinion. The Loar archtops may be a good place to start looking and the price point is fairly modest.
I own an Eastman AR910CE which I like a lot. Here is a link to Eastman archtops: http://www.eastmanguitars.com/archtop-guitars-16-and-17 I am getting the archtop sounds that I really like from my Eastman archtop, but I am using it like an electric jazz guitar, played through a clean, very high quality tube amp. I had a Guild jazz guitar before the Eastman, but I was never really able to get the sounds I wanted -- that classic Gibson L5 sound but without the big price tag. I like playing Martin Taylor fingerstyle jazz, though I am not nearly as accomplished as Martin Taylor. I got mine from LA Guitar Sales, who is a sponsor here on the AGF. I also have a 1970s era Gibson ES335, but to me, that guitar does not produce a classic jazz sound. However, it is a super versatile electric guitar, good for all kinds of general electric music. Best of luck! - Glenn
__________________
My You Tube Channel
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#11
01-23-2017, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
They were all very playable, and the electrified ones sounded pretty good amplified , but they aren't really archtops. No carved tops as per the originals that they copy cosmetically. For a "real" archtop, you need to check out carved tops, and old Gibsons and Epis can be found quite cheaply. I have a delightful Harmony Monterey (1964) which has a great archtop sound, but has a pressed top rather than carved. I have tried Loar Archtops but whilst loud, didn't care for the construction. The Eastman AR series are very fine. If you are asking about electrics - with pickups screwed to the tops, in my opinion they aren't real archtops - and I can't help.
__________________
Silly Moustache, Just an old Limey acoustic guitarist, Dobrolist, mandolier and singer. I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom!
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#13
01-23-2017, 01:12 PM
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FYI I tried the entire family - Olympic, Zenith, and Deluxe - at Sam Ash not too long ago. Perhaps it's the fact that I've been acquainted with the New York originals all my life, played more than my share over the last 55 years (and owned an original '46 Blackstone), but to say the least I was more than a bit disappointed in the overall package; frankly, it's far more than just the question of building to a price - the current Epiphone company has proven more than capable of incorporating period-appropriate features into their product line - but if you're looking for tone first and foremost IMO you'd be far better-served with one of the competitive Loar models rather than the Deluxe/Zenith, and my Godin 5th Avenue (all-laminated, BTW) just plain eats the similarly-priced Olympic for breakfast, period. I'm well aware that everybody has their own taste, but objectively speaking you might not find the necks - a heavy, rounded "Louisville Slugger" shape intended to mimic a generic '30s profile, but which in fact never appeared on any period Epi (some of the '37-39 instruments boasted 1-9/16" necks - a specification that would not see use for another quarter-century - as regular production) - to your liking; in addition, the acoustic projection is far from what it should be for this type of instrument - the recently-discontinued 17" Gretsch Synchromatic 400 makes the Deluxe sound/look like a toy - so take that into consideration as well if you're going to be playing primarily unplugged...
A few reasonably-priced ($1500 or less) alternatives: Loar LH-600/700 Eastman 500/600 Series Guild A-150 Savoy D'Angelico EXL-1A Used player-grade '30s-50s Gibson/Epiphone 16" acoustics (L-48/50; Zenith, Blackstone, Spartan, etc.) Loar/Eastman/Guild/D'Angelico are available through many of the major dealers; you'll have to do a Google search for a new Gretsch Synchro 400 (there may be some used ones on Reverb/eBay - you want the non-cutaway, all-acoustic version in either case). Check with the vintage specialists (Elderly, Gruhn, Norman's, Retrofret, archtop.com, et al.) for their current stock of Big Band-era comp boxes, or have them put your name on a list for when the one you want comes in... Hope this helps... 
__________________
"Mistaking silence for weakness and contempt for fear is the final, fatal error of a fool" - Sicilian proverb (paraphrased)
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#14
01-23-2017, 01:18 PM
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Archtops are a small percentage of the guitar world, and most of the production ones are thin-line, built-in humbuckers, and oriented towards rockabilly, country, blues. If you were interested in more contemporary (at least post-war) jazz I'd say check out the Epiphones and Ibanez.
If you want a more acoustic one, Epiphone is the best bet for an affordable new one, though I didn't care for the Masterbuilts I tried. Good vintage archtops are very collectible- if someone want to point me towards an L-5 that's less than $5000, I'd love to see it! I did play a late 40's Gretsch recently that was $800, though, and lesser brands like Kay, Stella, Harmony, can be found for a few hundred. They might be laminate, though, and weren't very good even when they were new.
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#15
01-23-2017, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
I don't know much about those... from what I can see elsewhere online, the wear isn't out of the ordinary for that era instrument (although what happened just below the tailpiece?) and the price isn't out of line either. Does that look like a decent deal?
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