Grover Sta-Tite maintenance/durability

[RJVB]

Hi,

I had the A string break earlier tonight, managed to get it back on with a new knot in place of a ball end, noticed it wound itself untidely on the machine head so I released it enough to correct that, and wound it back up. And the I noticed that the peg had begun to grind and function much less smoothly and homogenously than before.

Visual inspection showed nothing wrong (no play, all screws properly seated and tightened including the big one that holds the brass crown in place. In the end I unwound the string once more and put on some silicon oil spray (sparingly and avoiding to get it on the finish). That seems to have settled the problem for now, as if some grime (or a loose bit of chrome finish?) had worked itself between the treads.

I did notice some wear on those brass crowns though. I got the instrument new last August.

What's the expected lifetime of these tuners, is it normal to see mechanical wear on them this quickly? I use a Dunlop manual peg winder; maybe I should be more careful with it?

[beatcomber]

Originally Posted by RJVB

What's the expected lifetime of these tuners, is it normal to see mechanical wear on them this quickly?

I can't speak to the quality of the current production Sta-Tites, but the original set on my '62 Gretsch are still doing fine.

[Realbluesman]

IME, Grover backs up their warranty on their tuners. Easy replacements if there is a problem.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by Realbluesman

IME, Grover backs up their warranty on their tuners. Easy replacements if there is a problem.

That's reassuring.

Also when the tuners are "OEM" and Grover could thus relay claims to (in this case) Fender? I already know that I voided the Fender warranty when I had a new nut cut (for installing nylon strings) ...

[pattste]

I would assume the manufacturer will replace the defective tuner under warranty. The new nut probably won't be noticed and denying your warranty claim for a defective tuner on that basis would be in bad faith to say the least.

If they won't replace or fix it under warranty, I would replace the tuners with something else. I had Grover Sta-Tite on a Gibson Custom Shop Advanced Jumbo. I know some people like them but I thought they were the worst tuners I've ever had on a guitar. They weren't smooth at all and felt imprecise. The improvement offered by similarly priced, top-quality tuners like Gotoh 510 or Graphtec Ratio is night and day in my opinion.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by pattste

The new nut probably won't be noticed and denying your warranty claim for a defective tuner on that basis would be in bad faith to say the least.

Maybe I should have mentioned that I also have a new saddle (for increasing the action) which means the biscuit was also replaced (because glued to the old saddle). I tried to get a new tailpiece under warranty because the one on my guitar was installed off-centre (after first having been installed in a more centred position, so there are already 4 plugged screw holes more or less where the new ones would have to go if I were simply to move the original tailpiece). My proposition was to send me a new tailpiece then I would bend the legs to get the string holder part centred correctly while using the current set of screws. They denied that because of the new nut and saddle, despite the fact those "modifications" evidently did not have any effect on a pre-existing manufacturing error...

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by RJVB

Hi,

I had the A string break earlier tonight, managed to get it back on with a new knot in place of a ball end, noticed it wound itself untidely on the machine head so I released it enough to correct that, and wound it back up. And the I noticed that the peg had begun to grind and function much less smoothly and homogenously than before.

Visual inspection showed nothing wrong (no play, all screws properly seated and tightened including the big one that holds the brass crown in place. In the end I unwound the string once more and put on some silicon oil spray (sparingly and avoiding to get it on the finish). That seems to have settled the problem for now, as if some grime (or a loose bit of chrome finish?) had worked itself between the treads.

I did notice some wear on those brass crowns though. I got the instrument new last August.

What's the expected lifetime of these tuners, is it normal to see mechanical wear on them this quickly? I use a Dunlop manual peg winder; maybe I should be more careful with it?

There are two different levels of "Grover Sta-tites". The lower quality Sta-tites have a stamped steel baseplate with bent ears that hold the worm. The Grover Sta-tite Deluxe tuners are the only ones I will use and have a cast baseplate, larger and better machined crown gear, and much higher quality all around. The Sta-tites with the bent steel baseplate do develop excessive wear and "gritty" operation.

The Deluxes are 2 to 3 times the price of the lower tier Sta-tites and well worth it.

[Brucebubs]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

There are two different levels of "Grover Sta-tites". The lower quality Sta-tites have a stamped steel baseplate with bent ears that hold the worm. The Grover Sta-tite Deluxe tuners are the only ones I will use and have a cast baseplate, larger and better machined crown gear, and much higher quality all around. The Sta-tites with the bent steel baseplate do develop excessive wear and "gritty" operation.

The Deluxes are 2 to 3 times the price of the lower tier Sta-tites and well worth it.

I might be wrong but I think that lower quality Sta-Tite has a 14:1 ratio and the better quality version with the cast baseplate is 18:1.

[gmel555]

If u got the instrument new last August, no way should you have issues with tuners at this stage. I’d say it’s a warranty issue. BTW, in general it’s good practice to keep silicon based products away from your instrument. A little around the headstock not an issue, but best to keep it away altogether over the long term.

[RJVB]

It sounds reasonable that I have the lower quality version. After all this is an instrument from the Gretsch Roots series, costing around 500€ and not exactly without quality control issues.

Does that lower quality version by any chance have chromed steel base plates? I've been wondering if the gritty and inprecise operation was due to a bit of chrome having come off. I've been testing strings which has meant a lot of peg turning and with that peg winder it's too easy NOT to turn the peg properly and only around its axis without sideways motion. I haven't been overly concerned with that because I assumed the tuners were 1) Grovers and 2) l look like they can handle it.

Either way, the spray did wonders (as it usually does), operation seems to have gone back to normal for now. I will keep a potential future upgrade in the back of my mind; are those deluxe versions a drop-in replacement that will mount using the existing screw holes?

Re: silicon: I've been warned elsewhere that the thing to avoid is silicon oil, silicon itself not so much.
Anything less dangerous I could use for lubrification? I thought it best to avoid dielectric grease, vaselin or even sewing machine oil on open machine heads

[AndrewG]

Avoid Vaseline, it's a grit magnet. You can use a small drop of very light machine oil if you feel it necessary, but to be honest a tuner's mechanism actually gets very little use if you think about it; it isn't constantly turning but maybe a couple of times a day when adjusting tuning, and a bit more when you change strings, so any wear after less than a year should be minimal. Personally I'd leave it as it is, unlubricated.

[RJVB]

True and true. I only did it this time because the stuff I used is also a driving cleaning agent.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

I might be wrong but I think that lower quality Sta-Tite has a 14:1 ratio and the better quality version with the cast baseplate is 18:1.

Generally true, but the ratio isn't what causes the problems.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by RJVB

It sounds reasonable that I have the lower quality version. After all this is an instrument from the Gretsch Roots series, costing around 500€ and not exactly without quality control issues.

Does that lower quality version by any chance have chromed steel base plates? I've been wondering if the gritty and inprecise operation was due to a bit of chrome having come off. I've been testing strings which has meant a lot of peg turning and with that peg winder it's too easy NOT to turn the peg properly and only around its axis without sideways motion. I haven't been overly concerned with that because I assumed the tuners were 1) Grovers and 2) l look like they can handle it.

Either way, the spray did wonders (as it usually does), operation seems to have gone back to normal for now. I will keep a potential future upgrade in the back of my mind; are those deluxe versions a drop-in replacement that will mount using the existing screw holes?

Re: silicon: I've been warned elsewhere that the thing to avoid is silicon oil, silicon itself not so much.
Anything less dangerous I could use for lubrification? I thought it best to avoid dielectric grease, vaselin or even sewing machine oil on open machine heads

Generally, yes. I've seen the stamped steel base plates in gold finish also. You might see special run Grovers done as OEM parts that are slightly different than what's seen as retail tuners, but the cast base plate tuners are always superior.

Additionally, the 97 series and 98 series Grovers have mounting screw hole centers that are slightly different, so not an exact drop-in replacement. I have no idea why they would have done that, but it is what it is. One is 15/16" and the other is 1", but I don't have my shop stock in front of me and don't remember which is which. The specifications are available with a quick Google if you need them.