All This Gretsch Chatter...

[stevecuss]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

In order:

• Post-2016 5600-Series E-matics tend to be lighter; my '16 3-PU/cats'-eye 5622T-CB scales in at 9 lbs. 3 oz. - similar to some of the heavier early-70's Norlin-era ES-345/355 semis - so if you're sensitive to on-the-strap weight or have musculoskeletal issues you'll want one of the later versions
• The main differentiating structural element in the 5600-Series is that it is/always was a true center-block semi like the Gibson 335/345/355 - the 5400's are old-school hollowbodies in the Brooklyn Gretsch tradition, and slightly thicker (albeit generally lighter) than the 5600's
• As I've stated previously, the current-production Chinese-made 5622's forfeit the '70s-style black-top Filter'trons and 5600-Series-specific Super Hi'lo'Trons (my favorite among recent Gretsch pickups, BTW) in favor of Broad'trons, essentially a bargain-basement full-size humbucker fitted with an enlarged Gretsch-style cover and surround - TMK these are pretty much the same pickups used on the early-2K's E-matics, and which input from Gretsch aficionados compelled the company to develop the reverse-engineered blacktop F-tron as a more authentic tonal/visual replacement; if it's simply a matter of the double-cutaway design the 5422's are still made in Korea as of this writing, and since many of the big-box stores are clearing out their remaining stock of Korean 5622's (mostly black or '66 Chevy-style Georgia Green) - the cream-colored pickguard/pickup rings and smaller pickups are the giveaway - you might want to move on one of those while they're still around...

Brilliant! Steve, thank you again for your guidance. I will have to see if the 5622 that I played was Chinese or Korean. I thought it had the same blacktop pick ups as the 5422. This is a helpful distinction. I enjoyed both guitars, and obviously per your recommendation would defer to the Korean every time. Much thanks.

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by stevecuss

Is there any other benefit to the post 2016 models?

They don't say "Electromatic" on the head stock. It's a much cleaner look.

[Jaden]

This thread with Steve DeRosa’s expert input got me interested in checking out the Gretsch guitars at a local shop - I tried out a Korean made, orange G5622 and was surprised with the very light weight and finish quality - tone was thick yet articulate, almost 3D through a Fender Tweed Blues Junior - as it turned out the shop had more Japanese made 6100 models and above, including a Falcon with red flame top and Nashville double cut. I tried a G6118 Anniversary Special and all said here is true of these guitars - but really deserving of a Fender Deluxe Reverb to provide big clean 3D sound. The manager there is an affecianado from the 1960s - he’s all about going for the Japanese made ones.

[PTony]

Let’s not forget that the current models are not rosewood boards either.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by PTony

Let’s not forget that the current models are not rosewood boards either.

If my memory is correct the 5622 had open gear tuners in keeping with its light weight construction, but I didn’t take note of the fretboard material - the 6118* had an ebony fretboard - they had two in stock - silver top, blue back, sides and neck, and the other almost a surf green colour top, don’t know about the back - didn’t handle that one. The most appealing was the Nashville model - didn’t take note of the number nomenclature but all in all these centre block guitars really were impressive to handle - pictures don’t do them justice.

* looking through the f holes, internal construction was meticulous, but not sure if this one was hollow body or centre block

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by PTony

Let’s not forget that the current models are not rosewood boards either.

According the specs on the GC web site, they are rosewood. The fret board on my 2018 looks like rosewood.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Jaden

...I tried out a Korean made, orange G5622 and was surprised with the very light weight and finish quality - tone was thick yet articulate, almost 3D through a Fender Tweed Blues Junior - as it turned out the shop had more Japanese made 6100 models and above, including a Falcon with red flame top and Nashville double cut. I tried a G6118 Anniversary Special and all said here is true of these guitars - but really deserving of a Fender Deluxe Reverb to provide big clean 3D sound. The manager there is an aficionado from the 1960s - he’s all about going for the Japanese made ones.

I own both - a '16 Korean E-matic G5622T-CB (double-cutaway, 3 Super Hi-lo'Trons, cats'-eye soundholes) and a Professional Series MIJ '13 double-cut White Falcon 6136DC - as well as an original '64 Double Annie I bought new, and I've played everything I could get my hands on with the Gretsch name over the last 56 years, so I'll speak from my personal experience (as with everything else, YMMV)...

As one recent poster stated, the MIK E-matics are more than just great guitars for the money, they're great guitars period - as you've already discovered QC and tone are head-shoulders-and-navel above anything else in their price class, far exceeding most of the Brooklyn originals (if you grew up in that time/place Gretsch was not only your hometown brand but also your first "good" guitar, and I've probably played a few hundred in my lifetime), and the extremely reasonable prices are just icing on the cake; it also seems that they serve as a sort of skunkworks, where potential additions/modifications to the Pro Series are field-tested (viz. center-block construction; G5448 limited-edition '62 double-cut Jet Firebird; treble-bleed volume controls; revived four-knob circuitry, etc.) before the commitment/investment is made in fitting them to the high-end MIJ instruments...

The Professional Series, under the administration of Fred Gretsch, has emerged as not only a continuation of the best of the Gretsch heritage - White Falcon, the Chet Atkins line, Country Club, Double Anniversary, the Jet solids - but an extension to meet the needs of 21st-century guitarists without sacrificing the essential elements that define the distinctive Gretsch tone/aesthetic. While this is unquestionably their prestige line, intended to compete with factory instruments in the $2-4K range (and once again exceeding them in out-of-the-box fit/finish/playability IME) - if you've just gotta have an authentic '55 Falcon, '58 Penguin, '59 6120, '60 Double Annie, or '62 "King George" Country Gent, this is the only way to get one without laying down a whole lot more cash on a vintage original (which is going to have issues except in rare cases) - and equipped with better hardware (USA vs. licensed Bigsby, Brooklyn-style Filter'tron/Hi-lo'Tron pickups, a redesigned Space Control roller bridge that actually plays in tune as long as you use a wound G), if you're familiar with the different varieties of genuine Gretsch tone IME you give up nothing whatsoever in the Korean E-matics when you plug in and crank it up. As you've discovered that big, clean, 3D "Great Gretsch Sound" is unquestionably there in both cases, variations being attributable - as they were even back in the day - to individual differences in construction/electronics (center-block vs. full-hollow - FYI the 6118 is an old-school hollowbody - anchored Adjust-o-Matic vs. floating Space Control/bar bridge, blacktops vs. Brooklyn-style F-tron/Hi-lo pickups), and I'm not surprised that each one requires a different amp to bring out the best for your style...

Bottom line: There are many flavors of "Gretsch tone" - IME they tend to accentuate the individuality of the player more than any other marque - and with the broad variety of current offerings it shouldn't be too hard to find the one(s) best suited to your needs; that said, while the Professional Series is a better instrument in terms of attention to detail, the 5400/5600-Series Electromatics are fully-gigworthy professional-quality instruments by any standard - my 5622 is one of exactly three guitars I've owned in my lifetime that needed absolutely no setup whatsoever (one of the others being the White Falcon, BTW) - and mine has not only been my go-to playing-out axe for the last three years, it's never failed to receive compliments from fellow musicians wherever we play (more so from the ones who've tried it out for themselves). In addition, to date all the iconic Gretsch namesakes are represented by analogous models in the Electromatic lineup - White Falcon (single- and double-cut), Viking, Country Gent (single- and double-cut), 6120/Nashville, Tennessean, Country Club, Double Anniversary, the various Jet iterations - along with newer/unusual items like the Brian Setzer Hot Rod and the Mike Nesmith 12-string (presently a GC/MF exclusive - and a bargain at $999) - so while you could pay more for that Gretsch-of-your-dreams (I had a 55-year jones for a double-cut Falcon, ever since I saw the photos in the '63 catalog when I was a kid), if you're going to be using it in the trenches you don't need to...

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

I own both - a '16 Korean E-matic G5622T-CB (double-cutaway, 3 Super Hi-lo'Trons, cats'-eye soundholes) and a Professional Series MIJ '13 double-cut White Falcon 6136DC - as well as an original '64 Double Annie I bought new, and I've played everything I could get my hands on with the Gretsch name over the last 56 years, so I'll speak from my personal experience (as with everything else, YMMV)...

As one recent poster stated, the MIK E-matics are more than just great guitars for the money, they're great guitars period - as you've already discovered QC and tone are head-shoulders-and-navel above anything else in their price class, far exceeding most of the Brooklyn originals (if you grew up in that time/place Gretsch was not only your hometown brand but also your first "good" guitar, and I've probably played a few hundred in my lifetime), and the extremely reasonable prices are just icing on the cake; it also seems that they serve as a sort of skunkworks, where potential additions/modifications to the Pro Series are field-tested (viz. center-block construction; G5448 limited-edition '62 double-cut Jet Firebird; treble-bleed volume controls; revived four-knob circuitry, etc.) before the commitment/investment is made in fitting them to the high-end MIJ instruments...

The Professional Series, under the administration of Fred Gretsch, has emerged as not only a continuation of the best of the Gretsch heritage - White Falcon, the Chet Atkins line, Country Club, Double Anniversary, the Jet solids - but an extension to meet the needs of 21st-century guitarists without sacrificing the essential elements that define the distinctive Gretsch tone/aesthetic. While this is unquestionably their prestige line, intended to compete with factory instruments in the $2-4K range (and once again exceeding them in out-of-the-box fit/finish/playability IME) - if you've just gotta have an authentic '55 Falcon, '58 Penguin, '59 6120, '60 Double Annie, or '62 "King George" Country Gent, this is the only way to get one without laying down a whole lot more cash on a vintage original (which is going to have issues except in rare cases) - and equipped with better hardware (USA vs. licensed Bigsby, Brooklyn-style Filter'tron/Hi-lo'Tron pickups, a redesigned Space Control roller bridge that actually plays in tune as long as you use a wound G), if you're familiar with the different varieties of genuine Gretsch tone IME you give up nothing whatsoever in the Korean E-matics when you plug in and crank it up. As you've discovered that big, clean, 3D "Great Gretsch Sound" is unquestionably there in both cases, variations being attributable - as they were even back in the day - to individual differences in construction/electronics (center-block vs. full-hollow - FYI the 6118 is an old-school hollowbody - anchored Adjust-o-Matic vs. floating Space Control/bar bridge, blacktops vs. Brooklyn-style F-tron/Hi-lo pickups), and I'm not surprised that each one requires a different amp to bring out the best for your style...

Bottom line: There are many flavors of "Gretsch tone" - IME they tend to accentuate the individuality of the player more than any other marque - and with the broad variety of current offerings it shouldn't be too hard to find the one(s) best suited to your needs; that said, while the Professional Series is a better instrument in terms of attention to detail, the 5400/5600-Series Electromatics are fully-gigworthy professional-quality instruments by any standard - my 5622 is one of exactly three guitars I've owned in my lifetime that needed absolutely no setup whatsoever (one of the others being the White Falcon, BTW) - and mine has not only been my go-to playing-out axe for the last three years, it's never failed to receive compliments from fellow musicians wherever we play (more so from the ones who've tried it out for themselves). In addition, to date all the iconic Gretsch namesakes are represented by analogous models in the Electromatic lineup - White Falcon (single- and double-cut), Viking, Country Gent (single- and double-cut), 6120/Nashville, Tennessean, Country Club, Double Anniversary, the various Jet iterations - along with newer/unusual items like the Brian Setzer Hot Rod and the Mike Nesmith 12-string (presently a GC/MF exclusive - and a bargain at $999) - so while you could pay more for that Gretsch-of-your-dreams (I had a 55-year jones for a double-cut Falcon, ever since I saw the photos in the '63 catalog when I was a kid), if you're going to be using it in the trenches you don't need to...

Great discussion (as usual). Bob (the manager at that shop) was unusually almost dismissive of the 5622 compared to the 6100s and up, but by his own admission he doesn’t currently have an electric set up at home due to domestic responsibilities(?) although his experience goes back to the early days in shop handling 50s and 60s Fenders and Gretsch - and/but he does say like you the Gretsch coming out of Japan looks better than in the old days (looking at the internal kerfing); it seems that orange 5622 has my name written all over it - love the colour and light weight - 335s I’ve seen in shop have always been a disappointment by comparison. Thanks for your help.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Jaden

...Bob (the manager at that shop) was unusually almost dismissive of the 5622 compared to the 6100s and up, but by his own admission he doesn’t currently have an electric set up at home...it seems that orange 5622 has my name written all over it - love the colour and light weight - 335s I’ve seen in shop have always been a disappointment by comparison...

Speaking strictly from pragmatic considerations he stands to make substantially more profit on the sale of a $3K guitar than a $1K guitar, so I'm not surprised by his "dismissive" attitude. FYI there used to be a Gibson dealer back in Brooklyn during the '70s, who was equally dismissive of the "lawsuit" Ibanez electrics vis-a-vis the crap that was coming out of Kalamazoo at the time; by the time his store went under he was selling t-shirts to pay the rent - such was his loss of credibility among local musicians - so if I were you I'd trust my ears and go with what suits you best, especially since you're not likely to find another brand-new MIK orange 5622 for sale...

[PTony]

Originally Posted by Jaden

If my memory is correct the 5622 had open gear tuners in keeping with its light weight construction, but I didn’t take note of the fretboard material - the 6118* had an ebony fretboard - they had two in stock - silver top, blue back, sides and neck, and the other almost a surf green colour top, don’t know about the back - didn’t handle that one. The most appealing was the Nashville model - didn’t take note of the number nomenclature but all in all these centre block guitars really were impressive to handle - pictures don’t do them justice.

* looking through the f holes, internal construction was meticulous, but not sure if this one was hollow body or centre block

Yes, the previous 5622 did have open gear tuners. The newer models are closed tuners. And I agree 100% regarding the craftsmanship. They’re incredibly built.

Originally Posted by phcorrigan

According the specs on the GC web site, they are rosewood. The fret board on my 2018 looks like rosewood.

My apologies, friends. I should’ve specified the new 5622’s do not have Rosewood. They are Laurel. And, as mentioned, they do not have Hi’Lo Trons but (*to me) the less desirable Broad Trons.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Jaden

...the 6118...almost a surf green colour top, don’t know about the back..

Here's the green one:

http://www.streetsoundsnyc.com/grets...ar-mint-ss1950









The official Gretsch designation is "two-tone Smoke Green" and it was exclusive to the 6118 Double Anniversary when it was introduced (with PAF Filter'trons, BTW - the Hi-lo'Trons came along in late '60/early '61 depending on whose account you read) - there was also a 6117 model in a more traditional two-tone tobacco sunburst (I've owned one since 1964), as well as a special-order version in the two-tone "Jaguar Tan" associated with some of the '50s archtops. BTW, this was Brian Jones' guitar of choice in the early days of the Stones:

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Here's the green one:

http://www.streetsoundsnyc.com/grets...ar-mint-ss1950









The official Gretsch designation is "two-tone Smoke Green" and it was exclusive to the 6118 Double Anniversary when it was introduced (with PAF Filter'trons, BTW - the Hi-lo'Trons came along in late '60/early '61 depending on whose account you read) - there was also a 6117 model in a more traditional two-tone tobacco sunburst (I've owned one since 1964), as well as a special-order version in the two-tone "Jaguar Tan" associated with some of the '50s archtops. BTW, this was Brian Jones' guitar of choice in the early days of the Stones:

Interesting history there. I guess the pickguard could be removed without too much trouble? I seem to remember looking at the guitar through its side f hole - the fretboard ‘floats’ above the top where it meets the body? The internal construction was interesting to look at underneath the top and forward to the neck block, it being a hollow body. I don’t remember cream binding on the example I saw, but Bob said the one there has TV Jones pickups. Japanese made with ebony fretboard & fine construction labeled in the body cavity. Nice guitar.

[rockabilly69]

I'm in the middle of recording a new CD and I was going to use my G6120T '55VS to record some parts, but I decided to I wanted a brighter twang so I just put some roundwounds on my G6118T SGR Double Annie, and man it sounds good! The locking tuners, and the pin-less Bigsby sure made the string change easier. I put on .011-.048 Pyramid Maximum Performance strings, and they sound like they were made for Gretsch guitars! While I was at it, I lubed up the nut and bridge contact points, and now, the Bigsby is as smooth as silk, and absolutely rock solid on the tuning stability. One thing I like about the newer Gretsches is that they don't "ebonize" (dye), the rosewood on the fretboard. Not only is it easier to tell the quality of the rosewood they use, the fingerboard cleaning goes much easier.

[Rogerblair]

Ooooo, that double Annie...I need a cigarette..

Rb

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Speaking strictly from pragmatic considerations he stands to make substantially more profit on the sale of a $3K guitar than a $1K guitar, so I'm not surprised by his "dismissive" attitude. FYI there used to be a Gibson dealer back in Brooklyn during the '70s, who was equally dismissive of the "lawsuit" Ibanez electrics vis-a-vis the crap that was coming out of Kalamazoo at the time; by the time his store went under he was selling t-shirts to pay the rent - such was his loss of credibility among local musicians - so if I were you I'd trust my ears and go with what suits you best, especially since you're not likely to find another brand-new MIK orange 5622 for sale...

The lure of the 5622 is strong, but with 5 really good guitars already at home, the 6118, offered at a good price including factory case (a big plus) is equally so. Do I deserve such a guitar as the 6118? Not by 50 miles, but now it’s a question of numbers, and I might miss the boat entirely on the 5622. Tomorrow will tell.