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  #16  
Old 10-13-2018, 07:39 PM
David MacNeill David MacNeill is offline
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I found this video useful and even a little inspiring. Goofball mic rigs + blinking plug-ins can = audio bliss. All you need is love – you know, in front of the goofy mic rig.
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  #17  
Old 12-16-2018, 03:53 AM
Andy Howell Andy Howell is offline
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I've been playing around with mid/side following Doug's piece and thought I'd report back.

Over the autumn I have been recording some young singer songwriters who have played at an acoustic session I've been running. Many have simply not recorded before and most of them don't have decent demos.

Most of these folks prefer recording 'live'. I've experimented with one large condenser and with two large condensers (one aimed at the voice and one at the guitar). Some of these recordings have been very good but I wanted to introduce a bit more natural stern width. I then tried a large condenser for vocals and two small condensers for the guitar. I wasn't really happy with this either.

This week I tried mid/side in this same situation. I found this worked really well, gave me a solid mid image to work with and a far better stereo width that was easily tweaked.

Processing was easy using the plugin Doug uses. In my Daw I relied on Fab Filter's Pro EQ 3 for eq. FFPQ3 uses dynamic eq. This is fascinating when used with mid side.

For example, a highish mid boost can bring up the vocal a little. With the FF dynamic EQ I could pick a frequency point and set this as a mid side point only. I could then give a little boost. I could then insert another point at exactly the same frequency and set this as a side point only. I'd then raise boost this frequency a little but not as far as the mids.

So, I've found mid/side to be the easiest processing in this situation. Dynamic EQ really helps when trying to cope with something that needs a little taming on, say, the guitar when you are sharing the band with vocals. And the FF ability to mix mid and side on the same frequency really helps as well.

I'll be experimenting more with mid/side in these situations.

Listening to the recordings I'm not sure one necessarily sounds better than the other but it may be easier to get a result with mid/side.
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  #18  
Old 12-16-2018, 01:04 PM
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I'd like to pick up a multi pattern mic at some point to play with recording in M/S, but I am trying to hold off at the moment. I am having good success with my Gefells in ORTF and should just stick with that.

I found it informative Doug to look at your basic metering setup and how you applied EQ and that bit of compression. I picked up the TC Electronics LM2N metering plugin after seeing yours in the video and am finding it pretty handy and informative to use. I think a separate thread on this topic from one of the pros here would be pretty informative.

Andy, I have been demo'ing the Fab Filter EQ, Reverb, and Compression plugins. For a mixing newbie like me I have found them easy to use, with a really nice interface. Currently trying to decide if I should get the bundle of those three or just buy the EQ on its own and get a different reverb like the VSS3.

This has been a good thread. I need to stop myself from going down the rabbit hole of acquiring plugins.
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  #19  
Old 12-23-2018, 06:09 PM
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Thanks for the video. I really enjoyed it. Keep pumping them out. I agree with Anton, separate from the M/S, it's just nice to see you work with reverb, compression, mastering, etc.

I did a single tune once years ago for a complication record where the engineer used M/S. I wasn't super happy with that recording for other reasons, but I do remember thinking the M/S thing was pretty cool and worth playing around with more for sure. I could see one up side for someone like me that moves around a lot is you can get a nice wide image but maybe less likely to get -or at least could maybe correct for- the occasional unintentional sea-sicky panning moment I sometimes get when I use an ORTF close in and move a bit.
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  #20  
Old 12-23-2018, 09:44 PM
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Thanks Eric, glad you enjoyed it. I just finished an article/video for AG on recording guitar, and the video goes thru an end-to-end recording process using more normal techniques :-) Not sure when it will show up, but one of these days.

That moving around while playing is tricky, and I'm not sure how much MS could help, tho, at least with the Voxengo plugin, there's a lot of possible manipulations, like panning the mid or sides separately, which could maybe be automated to fix some problem spot.

I'm fanatical about having a good stereo image, and work hard to be sure I'm locked into position when recording. I usually use a footstool when recording, just to keep me positioned as much the same as I can. I have a monitor set up where I can see it with stereo balance meters on it, and while I don't want to glued to it while playing, it at least reminds me to try to stick to the position and image I dialed in at the beginning.
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  #21  
Old 12-24-2018, 02:57 AM
GTR1960 GTR1960 is offline
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I appreciate the video. I haven't heard of the voxengo plugin. I've been doing it the copy- phase reverse . The voxengo is going to be a timesaver.
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  #22  
Old 12-24-2018, 05:01 AM
JakeStone JakeStone is offline
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Thanks for posting Doug. That was really informative and helpful
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  #23  
Old 12-24-2018, 12:54 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Thanks Eric, glad you enjoyed it. I just finished an article/video for AG on recording guitar, and the video goes thru an end-to-end recording process using more normal techniques :-) Not sure when it will show up, but one of these days.

That moving around while playing is tricky, and I'm not sure how much MS could help, tho, at least with the Voxengo plugin, there's a lot of possible manipulations, like panning the mid or sides separately, which could maybe be automated to fix some problem spot.

I'm fanatical about having a good stereo image, and work hard to be sure I'm locked into position when recording. I usually use a footstool when recording, just to keep me positioned as much the same as I can. I have a monitor set up where I can see it with stereo balance meters on it, and while I don't want to glued to it while playing, it at least reminds me to try to stick to the position and image I dialed in at the beginning.
Mid Side is my favorite recording technique for ac guitars, and I agree you've really got to hold that guitar in place, and I've noticed, in time, you get used to keeping the guitar in place. I try to listen closely in the headphones to be aware of my position.
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  #24  
Old 12-24-2018, 01:44 PM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockabilly69 View Post
Mid Side is my favorite recording technique for ac guitars, and I agree you've really got to hold that guitar in place, and I've noticed, in time, you get used to keeping the guitar in place. I try to listen closely in the headphones to be aware of my position.
If I were mainly recording myself i could see doing it. But as someone who primarily records other performers, I can't see making them jump through that extra hoop.
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  #25  
Old 12-24-2018, 02:09 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
If I were mainly recording myself i could see doing it. But as someone who primarily records other performers, I can't see making them jump through that extra hoop.
I was talking about mainly talking about recording yourself here, so yes agreed. I do listen and watch other performers as they come into my studio and if they aren't too bouncy I try M/S with them. And because I record a lot of acoustic guitar I have certain chairs that tend to keep performers a little more comfortable and centered. This is what they look like...


Last edited by rockabilly69; 12-24-2018 at 02:21 PM.
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  #26  
Old 12-24-2018, 03:37 PM
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I don't think there's any extra hoop for the performer - most wouldn't know the difference between, say a vertical XY, and a MS setup. And I don't think MS is any more sensitive (or less) to movement than any other (except mono). Mathematically, MS is exactly the same stereo pattern as XY, so I'd say the same issues with movement occur no matter what the micing technique - but they are exacerbated by close micing. What I described as locking myself in place, basically by having a chair and a footstool, I do regardless of the micing technique. I don't like wearing headphones while recording, unless I'm overdubbing.

I do suspect that with spaced pairs there's at least a bit more of a visual guide, and observant guitarists will naturally try to keep themselves aligned to the mics, while an MS setup offers less of a visual cue. But I've had plenty of times recording others where we get the mics set up and by 2nd take I realize the player has managed to move dramatically out of the position we set up - even with spaced pairs.... Some people just can't sit still :-) I do feel better correcting the levels of a spaced-pair recording than an XY or MS if they end up being off because someone has moved - perhaps for no rational reason.
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  #27  
Old 12-24-2018, 04:53 PM
runamuck runamuck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockabilly69 View Post
I was talking about mainly talking about recording yourself here, so yes agreed. I do listen and watch other performers as they come into my studio and if they aren't too bouncy I try M/S with them. And because I record a lot of acoustic guitar I have certain chairs that tend to keep performers a little more comfortable and centered. This is what they look like...

I love that chair. Can you tell me where you got it?
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  #28  
Old 12-24-2018, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by runamuck View Post
I love that chair. Can you tell me where you got it?
https://www.amazon.com/Corvus-Madonn.../dp/B01D3I68F6
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  #29  
Old 12-24-2018, 05:14 PM
runamuck runamuck is offline
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Thanks, Ric!
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  #30  
Old 12-24-2018, 05:25 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Originally Posted by runamuck View Post
I love that chair. Can you tell me where you got it?
they're quite comfortable, and on sale at overstock... https://www.overstock.com/Home-Garde...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
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