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Old 09-19-2018, 09:52 PM
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nacluth nacluth is offline
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Default Newbie to video (Third attempt! - page 3)

Hey everyone. I'll have to admit that I don't frequent this subforum, but I've been peeking in lately to try to get some tips before trying some video clips. We shot our first one today, and being a luthier and all, I'm not super savvy on current technology. I'm a true beginner in cameras, mics, and editing software. My father-in-law who is a photographer loaned me his rig for this shoot.

We shot on a Nikon D500 with a 20mm (1:2.8) at 50fps using the Nikon ME-1 microphone connected straight to the camera.

I'm looking for any feedback - positive or negative - that would help me get the most out of our future shoots. Obviously a better mic rig could provide some help, but feel free to help us make better videos.




Thanks for your time.
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Last edited by nacluth; 10-15-2018 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 09-20-2018, 01:59 AM
skypeace skypeace is offline
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Well done, thanks for sharing. I am a neophyte also, but I appreciate what you have created here. Can't help with the technical aspects, yet I know what I like.
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Old 09-20-2018, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nacluth View Post
Hey everyone. I'll have to admit that I don't frequent this subforum, but I've been peeking in lately to try to get some tips before trying some video clips. We shot our first one today, and being a luthier and all, I'm not super savvy on current technology. I'm a true beginner in cameras, mics, and editing software. My father-in-law who is a photographer loaned me his rig for this shoot.

We shot on a Nikon D500 with a 20mm (1:2.8) at 50fps using the Nikon ME-1 microphone connected straight to the camera.

I'm looking for any feedback - positive or negative - that would help me get the most out of our future shoots.



Thanks for your time.


Hi Ryan

Nice job.

An improvement (for future ventures) would be to record the audio separately using a better mic(s), and replace the audio in post. And you were right to refer to it as a mic 'rig' because it takes an external audio recorder, mic, stand, cables etc. I find it worth it with acoustic instruments. It could also be placed closer and eliminate the echo-y 'room' sound.

Also, it's nearly impossible in a shop with overhead lights to avoid picking up the ceiling fixtures on the face of the guitar…and the shop itself provides interest. You did a good job working in that environment.

Thanks for being brave enough to post this and ask for advice.


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Old 09-20-2018, 08:23 AM
difalkner difalkner is offline
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Good video, Ryan and Steve! And well played on a very good song, too.

I use a Rode Video Mic mounted on my Lumix and get a good sound but usually record with my iPhone 6S at the same time and blend the two in post.

But like Larry said, an external mic or two would likely be better and provide a richer sound.

Btw, love the ending shot waiting on the sustain to finish!

David
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Old 09-20-2018, 08:33 AM
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Thanks Larry and David. We’re definitely thinking about upgrading the mics we use. I have an old Zoom digital recorder, but I’m assuming I’m going to need some preamp or soundboard to convert from XLR to 1/4” jack. Is this usually what guitar guys do? The ease of the direct to camera was nice, but I see it’s limitations.

I see a savings plan in my future.
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Old 09-20-2018, 09:42 AM
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There are a number of folks here that are well versed in most aspects video production and no doubt will offer some valuable insight. ( I am not particularly one of them) So I will offer more of viewer and perhaps a ( If I was hired as your producer) perspective


First, overall that's not bad for first attempt at music video production and is certainly usable.

That said:

Here are some thoughts about moving forward
If your goal is that of producing really effective "Promotional Music Videos"
As opposed to a "Watch me play guitar" video (a phrase I think Fran G coined) there are some production aspects from a strict advertising/promo viewpoint I might suggest to consider


Obviously given the camera involved the "technical quality" of the video element itself ( focus clarity etc. ) is quite good.

While the "luthier shop" background is quaint, and interesting and works fine for the intro and model explanation , I think it is too busy and a bit distracting or at the least unnecessary, from idea of promoting the actual sonic impact of the guitar itself .

Audio wise while there is nothing that stands out a glaring negative sound wise, listening on my laptop with ear buds . When I plugged my tracking headphones in , I noticed a fair amount of ambient background noise and a bit of a boxy sound I am assuming because of the room . Also I would suggest the sonics seem to be focused on the upper mids and there seems to be a lack bass coming through ?
You might want to list what computer you are using and what audio and video editing software you are using.

Production wise I would consider perhaps finding a different room with a less busy background for the playing parts .
And as far as playing perhaps consider several varied and shorter pieces about 10 to 30 seconds long .
Any way you have a great start but not unlike like guitar building, there is a significant learning curve to music video production
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Old 09-20-2018, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by nacluth View Post
Thanks Larry and David. We’re definitely thinking about upgrading the mics we use. I have an old Zoom digital recorder, but I’m assuming I’m going to need some preamp or soundboard to convert from XLR to 1/4” jack. Is this usually what guitar guys do? The ease of the direct to camera was nice, but I see it’s limitations.

I see a savings plan in my future.
Hi Ryan
It's amazing what can be done simply and on a budget.

I use an 'old' Zoom H4n and which-ever mic I think fits the situation. I use a pair of Rode NT-3 mics for audio recordings, which can be phantom powered, or hold a 9volt battery.

The NT-3 is a decent quality mic with a 20mm diaphragm…and it's great on guitars (or other acoustic instruments). More bass than a small diaphragm, and more detail than a full 1" diaphragm. It's very kind to human voices for interviews.

The video/audio we are capturing is not going to be on Network TV…most of it is probably viewed on a computer or phone. For fixed lights, I went to Sam's Club and bought 4 LED shop lights which are color balanced very neutrally. Most of the time I can do an interview with 2 of them (one front one from back/side) mounted on $10 light stands with them shooting through $4 shower curtains to diffuse the light.

You have to be careful of how deep you want/need to go with video. It's a 'whirl-pool' which can suck one in deeper and deeper…costing more $$$ plus just a few more $$$ every time you turn around.

I very often use 7 year old crop sensor cameras, and my iPhones (a 6s and 8plus). I'm already a photographer (for 40 years for bucks), so I have the lenses, the know-how, experience and the training. If you don't that also is another learning curve to be 'mastered.'

If you only ever get as involved as you were when you made this very-nice-video you posted here, you will probably be pretty happy.

It makes a great retirement hobby, and I shoot and edit video for our church, and our family, but that's about it these days. Otherwise I'd have to be updating equipment every 3-5 years.

It's amazing what can be done simply and on a limited budget. One just has to be prepared to say 'that's enough…it'll do just fine'



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Old 09-20-2018, 10:31 AM
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KevWind, many thanks. That’s exactly the comment I’m looking for. Those were very helpful suggestions.

I chose on the camera the Vocal Range setting on the microphone input instead of the Wide Range because I felt like I really was getting too much ambient filler. I also decreased the mic sensitivity from the auto setting for the same reason. I think my choices may have clipped the lower range some as this guitar is very warm and full in the bass - except in the video.

I imported the video into IMovie on my Mac Mini because I didn’t think I was ready to shell out extra dollars to use Adobe Premiere. I didn’t modify the audio (in fact I just left it linked to the video) for some sense of misplaced audio integrity. Next time my goal will be to run an independent audio feed and mate it to the video. I exported it as the “better” mp4 file and uploaded to YouTube.


Thanks Larry for those tips as well. I’ve had my eye on the Rode mics as a good mid-level investment. I appreciate all the help. I’m sure these topics have been covered ad nauseam in this subforum, so thanks for repeating them.
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Old 09-22-2018, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nacluth View Post
KevWind, many thanks. That’s exactly the comment I’m looking for. Those were very helpful suggestions.

I chose on the camera the Vocal Range setting on the microphone input instead of the Wide Range because I felt like I really was getting too much ambient filler. I also decreased the mic sensitivity from the auto setting for the same reason. I think my choices may have clipped the lower range some as this guitar is very warm and full in the bass - except in the video.

I imported the video into IMovie on my Mac Mini because I didn’t think I was ready to shell out extra dollars to use Adobe Premiere. I didn’t modify the audio (in fact I just left it linked to the video) for some sense of misplaced audio integrity. Next time my goal will be to run an independent audio feed and mate it to the video. I exported it as the “better” mp4 file and uploaded to YouTube.


Thanks Larry for those tips as well. I’ve had my eye on the Rode mics as a good mid-level investment. I appreciate all the help. I’m sure these topics have been covered ad nauseam in this subforum, so thanks for repeating them.
Lately I've been exploring doing videos as well and in my search, came upon the Zoom Q2n. I did not scroll above this post, so not sure if it's mentioned already..ignore this if it was. Anyway, the website promo materials and videos produced with it are very impressive! A lot of features packed into a small, inexpensive cam with XY stereo mics and HD video, and accessories like a mic stand mount.... check it out.
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Old 09-22-2018, 10:10 AM
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I’m sure these topics have been covered ad nauseam in this subforum, so thanks for repeating them.
Hi Ryan…

This is a discussion group, not Guitar-a-pedia. It is designed and maintained to answer people's questions over and over and over. We are a front-porch not a library.

It's not painful for me to entertain discussions with people about the same topics over and over…

The thing which drew me to the group was the friendly nature of the discussions and quick responses and personalization of info…been hanging around ever since.




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Old 09-22-2018, 09:16 PM
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The thing which drew me to the group was the friendly nature of the discussions and quick responses and personalization of info…been hanging around ever since.
Thanks Larry. I’ve met a lot of people in the last 5 years, but if my memory doesn’t fail me, we got to spend a pleasant 15 minutes or so in the atrium at a Healdsburg Festival (2013?) while you played one of our guitars. I remember the interaction as representative of all my meetings with AGF friends: pleasant, friendly warmth as people who all enjoy a common bond. You were a good player too. Those meetings as well as the vast online network here have made me always love this place too.
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:41 AM
Vindellama Vindellama is offline
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As said. You'll need an external recorder for close micing and match the audio with the video.
In your chosen video editor expand the audio channel from the video and expand the timeline (to see more clearly the audio waves), add the audio recording to another channel bellow, also expand it. Match the audio recording channel using the help from the wave patterns. For perfectly matching use the arrow keys left and right in the timeline, usualy it moves in a frame-by-frame ratio. That way you can pinpoint the exact point where the audio peaks match, seeing how many left or right clicks they are apart, and then going to one of the timeline edges, pressing left or right that amount of times and moving the audio channel with the mouse to touch the timeline "bar"/frame. After that you can mute the audio from the video.
And export in the same bitrate as the video was recorded to avoid loss of quality from youtube.

As for the video. Try to frame the shot using the rule of thirds. Every camera has a 3/3 grid. Keep the main parts of interest where the lines cross. And avoid empty spaces following where the player is looking. In the video you posted there is empty space to the left, but the player is looking to the right, it should be the oposite or at least centering the face in the shot.

Use the histogram to shoot with the right exposure. It doesn't matter if there is clipping in reflections and sources of light as long as the subject is peaking around the middle (there is a lot of noise in the shadows).
If you have a properly lit enviroment, then this should be a non issue.
The least you try to correct/improve the image in the video editor, the better. Most consumer/prosumer grade cameras have poor codecs that can't be corrected/graded properly in post.
50fps is not needed, you would be better off with 24/30fps which has a higher bitrate per frame. Higher frame rates are only useful in sports or for slow motion.
Always shoot with the camera in full manual.
The SS/shutter speed must be set to the double of the frame rate. 1/50 for 24fps 1/60 for 30fps.
The aperture must be set to the lowest value as possible to blur the background and be able to shoot at the native ISO or lowest possible ISO.
If you have a full frame camera a 50mm lens will have the same look as normal human viewing, if it is a MFT camera, then you need to multiply by 2 (to get to the 50mm equivalent of the full frame), so it would be a 25mm lens.
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:40 AM
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Great stuff V!
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Old 09-25-2018, 08:50 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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Hi Stephen,

Nice video, lovely guitar, and very enjoyable playing!

I was asked on the AGF to make a video tutorial to help others see how I produced videos with reasonably good sound. A couple of small diaphragm condenser mics going to a small, portable digital recorder (Tascam or Zoom, for example) could allow you to improve on the sound quality in your videos of the future.

That video is here. It might be helpful.

And this video on the same subject by Michael Watts is very good!

Best of luck!

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Old 09-27-2018, 10:23 PM
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Thanks everyone for your huge support and ideas. I mean it - you have been extremely helpful.

Here's my second attempt. While I tried to keep everything in mind that was shared, obviously I'm not going to make just a huge leap forward on one attempt. I was mainly going for audio improvement which was somewhat successful. I think I recorded at a little too low of a level, so I had to adjust the gain in post a bit. As I'm trying to give an unfiltered representation of the guitar sound, I'm trying to limit any editing. Maybe some could offer opinions on what level of production changes the sound from real to engineered.

Used a Shure SM58 into a Zoom 4hN for the audio track. Shot again on the Nikon D500. Assembled in iMovie. I did shoot a secondary video feed to try to add another angle, but somehow I corrupted that file, so it's static again. But I did try some transitions to other pieces.




Thanks again for the feedback.
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