Yamaha NTX 1200R vs. ?

[bbrown]

I'm currently a steel string fingerstyle solo acoustic player. A lot of my pieces are classical based or straight classical. I am ready for a classical guitar.

So I decided I'd part with my Martin D 16GT and consider a trade or cash for a decent classical guitar. I love the Martin and it was selected for it's wonderful tone, but I have a Collings and a Lowden that cover the same territory.

Anyway, I have an offer for a Yamaha NTX 1200R. I read that there are some issues; a very wide neck, and cramped string spacing. I wrap my thumb over the top a lot (think Fahey) and hear that that can be difficult due to the overly wide neck. I suppose a new bridge and nut could overcome this.

I would like to hear what folks would recommend for a classical in this price range ($900) and what current opinion of the Yamaha NTX 1200R is, versus say a LaPetrie or Cordoba of compable worth (used).

A very general question I know, but I'm just looking for some advice,

Thanks,

--Bill

[pf400]

I have a Taylor 514C steel string and a Yamaha NTX1200R and I love them both. You can dial in a fair variety of tone on the NTX. I played a Guild crossover (a bit too woody or mellow), a Cort (excellent value for the money but not quite the quality), and a Taylor nylon string (about the same feel as the NTX but with a nicer low end). I'll stick with my NTX 1200R....it's amazing how loud it is when you play up the neck. It almost gets louder up at the 9th fret or higher. I've only tried one set of strings on it and I hope to go to a smaller gauge, higher tension soon, as the Augustines on it feel jus a bit too slack.

As I go through my songs I'm realizing that some pieces sound best on steel while some sound best on nylon. So I would never just have one guitar....hope this helps.

[jazzrat]

The Yamaha crossovers were at the top of my list. In the end I went with the
Cordoba Fusion 12 maple. The 48mm neck and 640mm scale sold me. I also read reviews on the two guitars. The Yamaha might have an edge plugged in but most of what I read, for acoustic tone and volume the Cordoba came out on top.

The neck profile and width are fantastic. One of the better necks I've played.
I have not gigged it yet but so far I love the tone both plugged and unplugged.

This is not an exact comparison because the 1200R is a little more expensive guitar.

[GuitarsLover]

You can not go wrong with Yamaha... they are consistent in tones ....and good quality. I have played Yamaha NTX700, NTX 1200r, NCX 900 flame maple. They are all good guitars to me. But, it is just IMO, I have tried few Cordoba ( Fusion, C9, C5, and C10) They are different feeling about the neck profile, and their tones are not balanced to me. Their wood choice for the sound board also be considered. Yamaha NTX series is a crossover which has 48mm width nut and neck joint to body at 14th fret - like steel string acoustic guitars, The NCX is tradition with 52mm width nut.

[bbrown]

Thank you Neil. That's very helpful.

The built-in electronics in the Yamaha NTX 1200R get excellent reviews.

Again, the string spacing/ neck width could be a problem for me. Perhaps this is an issue only for steel string players, who just need to get used to a classical guitar.
However, as I'll be playing mostly my acoustics, it would be nice to have the neck and the spacing seem similar as possible with any classical I'd own.

I once played a tune for a strictly classical player who shuddered when I wraped my thumb and fretted over the top. You'd think I just used the soundhole as an ashtray or something (BTW, as John Fahey was wont to do).

I totally agree - I play a lot of stuff that I end up feeling really needed a nylon string (my last recording, "Wind of Change", is a prime example), even though I can manage to make it work on my acoustic by softening my touch, etc.

[bbrown]

Originally Posted by jazzrat

The Yamaha crossovers were at the top of my list. In the end I went with the
Cordoba Fusion 12 maple. The 48mm neck and 640mm scale sold me. I also read reviews on the two guitars. The Yamaha might have an edge plugged in but most of what I read, for acoustic tone and volume the Cordoba came out on top.

The neck profile and width are fantastic. One of the better necks I've played.
I have not gigged it yet but so far I love the tone both plugged and unplugged.

This is not an exact comparison because the 1200R is a little more expensive guitar.

Jazzrat,

Does this refer to the Yamaha or the Cordoba? .......

......"The neck profile and width are fantastic. One of the better necks I've played.
I have not gigged it yet but so far I love the tone both plugged and unplugged."

Thanks for the reply,

--Bill

[bbrown]

Originally Posted by GuitarsLover

You can not go wrong with Yamaha... they are consistent in tones ....and good quality. I have played Yamaha NTX700, NTX 1200r, NCX 900 flame maple. They are all good guitars to me. But, it is just IMO, I have tried few Cordoba ( Fusion, C9, C5, and C10) They are different feeling about the neck profile, and their tones are not balanced to me. Their wood choice for the sound board also be considered. Yamaha NTX series is a crossover which has 48mm width nut and neck joint to body at 14th fret - like steel string acoustic guitars, The NCX is tradition with 52mm width nut.

That's interesting. The neck width on the NTX should be more to my liking coming from an acoustic guitar. Yet the neck seems to be one of the main complaints in reviews, where folks seem to think it's too wide. The specific issue seems to be that the two e strings have too much distance from the edge of the guitar, and the strings are to close and cramped. I guess a new nut and saddle could fix that?

[pf400]

Sorry...meant to say this in my first post. I found the string spacing too narrow on the NTX, and I saw lots of room there to widen the spacing. I had a new nut put on and it made a world of difference. My Guitar Tech was not 100% satiisfied with the new nut. It brought the 1st string too close to the edge in his opinion. I do have to be careful to set the capo pretty tight to avoid that issue but it's not really a problem.

I have no problem wrapping my thumb around the neck. Just takes a slight bit more effort that on my Taylor. I had read the reviews about that and was concerned because my fingers and hand are a bit small, but was relieved to see it was not an issue.

I do find the neck on the Yamaha a bit chunkier than on my Taylor but If I ensure to play both guitars regularly that is not a problem at all. Sometimes when playing the Yamaha I laugh when I do a series of pull-offs, becuse it's so much easier to do on nylon strings.

[jazzrat]

Jazzrat,

Does this refer to the Yamaha or the Cordoba? .......

Cordoba....48MM neck. I also considered the NTX's but the reviews again said the Cordoba acoustic tone was better...now. For my needs for this particular guitar, acoustic tone was more important. I was just after a couch/family vacation/occasional duo jazz gig guitar.

No diss on the Yamahas at all. I'm sure I could have lived with one.
Part of what made up my mind on the Cordoba was I got a decent price on a mint used one.

[Garthman]

I own a Yamaha APX6NA which is the NTX series mum - they are very similar guitars.

The only adaptation I made to the guitar was to replace the original nut with one cut to give an E to E spacing of 40mm.

It's a great guitar and I wouldn't want to be without it.

[bbrown]

Originally Posted by pf400

Sorry...meant to say this in my first post. I found the string spacing too narrow on the NTX, and I saw lots of room there to widen the spacing. I had a new nut put on and it made a world of difference. My Guitar Tech was not 100% satiisfied with the new nut. It brought the 1st string too close to the edge in his opinion. I do have to be careful to set the capo pretty tight to avoid that issue but it's not really a problem.

I have no problem wrapping my thumb around the neck. Just takes a slight bit more effort that on my Taylor. I had read the reviews about that and was concerned because my fingers and hand are a bit small, but was relieved to see it was not an issue.

I do find the neck on the Yamaha a bit chunkier than on my Taylor but If I ensure to play both guitars regularly that is not a problem at all. Sometimes when playing the Yamaha I laugh when I do a series of pull-offs, becuse it's so much easier to do on nylon strings.

Did you change the saddle also or is just a wider nut enough?

Thanks so much for all the info.
I'm being offered this Yamaha guitar as a trade for my Martin. Sort of wish it were a Cordoba or a LaPetrie on offer, as I'd rather not have to change nuts, etc. But I assume this is not a big deal, just more $.

I'm very new to classical guitars, so I'm sure there are many others that are excellent in this price range as well.

[bbrown]

Originally Posted by Garthman

I own a Yamaha APX6NA which is the NTX series mum - they are very similar guitars.

The only adaptation I made to the guitar was to replace the original nut with one cut to give an E to E spacing of 40mm.

It's a great guitar and I wouldn't want to be without it.

One wonders why in the world Yamaha doesn't just make these with a better spacing in the first place, when so many folks seem to be swapping their nut for a wider one.

[Dave T]

To the OP, not trying to give you a hard time but offering what might be clarifying information. The Yamaha you are considering is not a "classical" guitar. A set of nylon strings does not make a guitar a classical. It is a design and build that produces a specific style instrument, patterned after the first classicals or "Spanish" guitars. Some typical features are small, concert size body, without cutouts or electrical gadgetry, a wide flat neck and a long scale.

What you are considering is a crossover model which is trying to be everything at once. My experience owning two of them (still have one and I'd like to sell it) is that they don't do anything really well. This is typical of most compromises and I'm a bit ticked at myself for not knowing any better.

Also, wrapping the thumb over the neck is just bad form/technique in the classical world. That's probably why you got the reaction you did. And using some other guitar player's habit as justification won't cut it (no offense intended). Either learn to play a classical the correct way or put up with the grief you are likely to get.

Finally (and then I'll quit giving you a hard time) I would be reluctant to get a brand new guitar that immediately had to go to a luthier for modification. That just sounds like you're buying the wrong guitar.

YMMV,
Dave

[jjordan47]

Why don't you try the Yamaha before you decide it needs wider string spacing. I personally like close string spacing on both my steel and nylon guitars. I also like narrow necks and using my thumb to chord with. My nylon is a Taylor NS74ce. If your interested in how the Taylor sounds, Zach Brown uses the same guitar in a lot of his recordings.

[bbrown]

Thanks Dave and Jordan,

Points all well taken Dave. I was aware that this is a crossover, so my bad for the wrong nomenclature. That said, I am obviously new to nylon strings and indeed have a lot to learn.
A crossover seemed a good idea, as all I know is steel string, and I've been doing solo fingerstyle (and classical pieces) on a dreadnaught! BTW, that also is considered verbotin by many and I've been chastised for that as well. My Martin has not sold yet; someone offered a trade for his Yamaha NTX, so I think I'm going to go for it.

Thumb wrapping may be unsightly to some but I wonder if it's more an issue of classical players never having learned how to do it. It certainly can allow for easier playing at times. BTW, John Fahey is more than "some other guitar player"; he's rather a demigod, on the order of Leo Kottke. Just wanted to clarify

Of course I'll be playing the guitar for some time prior to any changes to the nut. I have large hands and it might be just fine for me.