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  #16  
Old 10-03-2012, 06:52 PM
Howard Emerson Howard Emerson is offline
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Hi Doug,
I still like it better with the little bit of reverb and the original, 'balanced' split.

The 2% on one side sounded very wonky, especially on the slide. Too obvious on certain phrases, and in a piece that has a lot of movement covering a lot of low to high, it could really get in the way.

Less is more.

HE
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  #17  
Old 10-03-2012, 06:58 PM
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Yep, probably delay is added by pitch shifter. Sound is shifted to the right on my headphones. Was the one channel pitch shifter examples added to the left track?
Later. Time to listen to the debate.
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  #18  
Old 10-03-2012, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Yep, probably delay is added by pitch shifter. Sound is shifted to the right on my headphones. Was the one channel pitch shifter examples added to the left track?
Later. Time to listen to the debate.
yes, left track was shifted. I thought I heard some Haas effect even with both tracks shifted. I'll try a different pitch shifter and see if that helps.
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  #19  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:28 PM
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With the reverb removed I clearly prefer the original omni track over the pitch shifted version, even the bilateral one.
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  #20  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:40 PM
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it's interesting, a big sound, but not terribly natural. I thought Howard's tracks sounded very good, tho, so it may be a difference in my pitch shifter.
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  #21  
Old 10-03-2012, 10:01 PM
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ok, another stab, using the waves doubler for the pitch shift. The doubler has a modulation effect, which I'm setting to 0 depth, but I feel like I can still hear it

Doubler Pitch Shift
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  #22  
Old 10-03-2012, 10:30 PM
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This one was markedly better for me - really, really nice sound. I've never heard anything like Schoeps for solid, powerful, "meaty" and "chewy". I don't know how to describe it. Hope you know what I mean.
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  #23  
Old 10-03-2012, 10:36 PM
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ok, another stab, using the waves doubler for the pitch shift. The doubler has a modulation effect, which I'm setting to 0 depth, but I feel like I can still hear it

Doubler Pitch Shift
Better but still a little harsher. It might come down to a host of other details about the recording as to whether this technique is a + or -.
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  #24  
Old 10-03-2012, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moon View Post
This one was markedly better for me - really, really nice sound. I've never heard anything like Schoeps for solid, powerful, "meaty" and "chewy". I don't know how to describe it. Hope you know what I mean.
Yeah, I like that one, too. One of the best stereo images I've ever gotten was from a Royer SF-12 stereo mic, blumlein, figure 8. But being a ribbon, it was rather lacking in highs. Stacking these two Mk8's gets close to simulating that setup, tho, with the Schoeps sound. Seems very natural, yet with a good sense of space and stereo image. I'll mess with that setup some more. I may get different sounds depending on where in the room I sit with these, with the figure 8 pattern.
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  #25  
Old 10-03-2012, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Better but still a little harsher. It might come down to a host of other details about the recording as to whether this technique is a + or -.
Quite possible. I've got a couple of extra punchy notes on this little ditty at the beginning. Howard's got a completely different sound and style, so it might have an entirely different effect on his tunes. Interesting, tho, another tool for the toolbox.
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  #26  
Old 10-04-2012, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Quite possible. I've got a couple of extra punchy notes on this little ditty at the beginning. Howard's got a completely different sound and style, so it might have an entirely different effect on his tunes. Interesting, tho, another tool for the toolbox.
Hi Doug,
I'm glad you took the time to do the experiment! I think the effect is wonderful, but everything in moderation.

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  #27  
Old 10-04-2012, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
I didn't make any effort to level match these, tho I should have. I was trying to focus mostly on the stereo image created by the different mic setups. What Howard suggested, and what I did in these mixes is raise the pitch by 1 cent on one side, drop it by 1 cent on the other, then apply some reverb. The first mix is just the Brauner omni spaced pair done that way. Mix 2 brings in the mid mid mic (mono) in the center with no pitch modification. Interesting sound, I knew of this technique as a mono->stereo simulator, or as automatic double-tracking, but never considered doing it to a true stereo image. Sounds a bit funky in mono, but it seems to make the sound much "bigger" in stereo. I'll have to experiment more with this.

I don't think I changed the reverb between mixes, but adding in the mid mic changes things all around a bit, you've got the non-pitch shifted audio mixed with the pitch shifted, and the extra mic brings up the overall level a bit, which I didn't compensate for
Interesting. Just to make sure I'm understanding... Mix 1 has 2 tracks sending to a reverb and Mix 2 has 3 tracks sending to the verb ?
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  #28  
Old 10-04-2012, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Interesting. Just to make sure I'm understanding... Mix 1 has 2 tracks sending to a reverb and Mix 2 has 3 tracks sending to the verb ?
No, I only had the stereo mics sent to the reverb. The added mid mic was dry. All I did between these mixes was unmute the mid track. Don't know why it would sound like more reverb, but there is the additional interaction between the un-pitch shifted mid and the pitch shifted stereo mics, so maybe that creates the feeling of ambience. Also we seem to have identified a few millisecond latency in the pitch shifter, so that would also add some effect.
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  #29  
Old 10-05-2012, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
No, I only had the stereo mics sent to the reverb. The added mid mic was dry. All I did between these mixes was unmute the mid track. Don't know why it would sound like more reverb, but there is the additional interaction between the un-pitch shifted mid and the pitch shifted stereo mics, so maybe that creates the feeling of ambience. Also we seem to have identified a few millisecond latency in the pitch shifter, so that would also add some effect.
Interesting, must just be my interpreting a different sound, as more verb.
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  #30  
Old 10-05-2012, 10:18 AM
Howard Emerson Howard Emerson is offline
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Interesting, must just be my interpreting a different sound, as more verb.
Kevin,
Every track on this audio montage employs the 1Cent flat L, 1Cent Sharp R:

http://howardemerson.com/music2.html

HE
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