The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-02-2012, 01:09 PM
SeamusORiley SeamusORiley is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: US
Posts: 1,085
Default Using Reverb Feature for Voice and Guitar

How important is this feature for the home recording, particularly for voice when the voice isn't so...so...so very fine?

I am hoping to learn how to master or mix a song on Garageband where reverb can be used on voice and/or guitar.

The Tascam DP 004 does not have reverb, but the 008 does. How important is this feature?


thanks!
__________________
Martin 00-15M (gloss custom)
Pono ATD 2 Tenor Ukulele
Seagull Merlin
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-02-2012, 04:23 PM
KevWind KevWind is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Edge of Wilderness Wyoming
Posts: 11,111
Default

Ah yes the Reverb question.

There really is no simple one size fits all answer. And by no small measure does personal taste factor in.

But for example, really good concert halls,opera halls, live performance halls, etc. as well as large studio tracking rooms, all have some type of acoustic reverb designed in.
So if you are listening in one of those situations you are hearing the very pleasant effect of reverb.

So IMO when you have a recording that lacks the benefit of having been recorded in such a place and is mostly without a reverberant sound, then I think the Judicious use of reverb can be beneficial.

That said often a mistake made when learning the craft/art of mixing is adding to much reverb. A simplistic explanation being that Reverberation is a kind of distortion of the sound wave and too much will begin to muddy the sound.

Also as far as voice again a little reverb can add a bit of sustain, too much will muddy the clarity or sound like a frog croaking in a big metal culvert.
__________________
" Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." Albert Einstein
Enjoy the Journey.... Kev...


KevWind at Soundcloud
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-02-2012, 05:53 PM
SeamusORiley SeamusORiley is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: US
Posts: 1,085
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Ah yes the Reverb question.

There really is no simple one size fits all answer. And by no small measure does personal taste factor in.

But for example, really good concert halls,opera halls, live performance halls, etc. as well as large studio tracking rooms, all have some type of acoustic reverb designed in.
So if you are listening in one of those situations you are hearing the very pleasant effect of reverb.

So IMO when you have a recording that lacks the benefit of having been recorded in such a place and is mostly without a reverberant sound, then I think the Judicious use of reverb can be beneficial.

That said often a mistake made when learning the craft/art of mixing is adding to much reverb. A simplistic explanation being that Reverberation is a kind of distortion of the sound wave and too much will begin to muddy the sound.

Also as far as voice again a little reverb can add a bit of sustain, too much will muddy the clarity or sound like a frog croaking in a big metal culvert.
I've never understood reverb...this explanation makes sense. Thank you. I love your samples. What are they recorded on?
__________________
Martin 00-15M (gloss custom)
Pono ATD 2 Tenor Ukulele
Seagull Merlin
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-02-2012, 05:57 PM
Bob1131 Bob1131 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 6,931
Default

Excellent question! There are many successful recording artists that do not use any reverb, preferring a natural "dry" sound...Jack Johnson comes readily to my mind. Yet there are many who use a very deep reverb very effectively such as Enya. So, there appears to be no hard fast rules.

I strive to use reverb to create depth or the illusion of distance. Think of walking into a very large but empty church or hall where someone is playing a guitar at the very back. When you enter, the sound you hear will be very distant with the reflections (reverb) sounding louder than the source sound. As you move closer to the guitarist you will notice the source getting louder and the reverberation getting quieter or less. When mixing, you must decide where you want each source to be with respect to the listener. A good reverb unit will give you control over tone, decay time, volume and mix of effect to dry signal. By manipulating those parameters you can approximate an almost infinite number of rooms, halls, or canyons and distance from the listener!

It is fun to experiment with reverb, but as Kev pointed out, a common beginner's mistake is using too much on everything. Also, reverb will not conceal or improve a poor vocal, but it can emphasize it! I recommend always recording your vocal dry and adding just a touch of reverb on the playback to to allow it to be heard only in spaces, that is, unless you are deliberately trying to make the vocal sound far away or coming from the ether rather than from reality (which is very effective for certain types of songs).
__________________
ShowcaseYourMusic (covers)

ReverbNation (originals)

SoundCloud (the Hobo Troubadour)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-02-2012, 07:06 PM
KevWind KevWind is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Edge of Wilderness Wyoming
Posts: 11,111
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob1131 View Post
Excellent question! There are many successful recording artists that do not use any reverb, preferring a natural "dry" sound...Jack Johnson comes readily to my mind. Yet there are many who use a very deep reverb very effectively such as Enya. So, there appears to be no hard fast rules.

I strive to use reverb to create depth or the illusion of distance. Think of walking into a very large but empty church or hall where someone is playing a guitar at the very back. When you enter, the sound you hear will be very distant with the reflections (reverb) sounding louder than the source sound. As you move closer to the guitarist you will notice the source getting louder and the reverberation getting quieter or less. When mixing, you must decide where you want each source to be with respect to the listener. A good reverb unit will give you control over tone, decay time, volume and mix of effect to dry signal. By manipulating those parameters you can approximate an almost infinite number of rooms, halls, or canyons and distance from the listener!

It is fun to experiment with reverb, but as Kev pointed out, a common beginner's mistake is using too much on everything. Also, reverb will not conceal or improve a poor vocal, but it can emphasize it! I recommend always recording your vocal dry and adding just a touch of reverb on the playback to to allow it to be heard only in spaces, that is, unless you are deliberately trying to make the vocal sound far away or coming from the ether rather than from reality (which is very effective for certain types of songs).
Not trying to be argumentative but I would guess Jack Johnson is tracking in a nice big room designed with reverb built in. So while not adding reverb it is very likely to some extent in the orginal recording.
__________________
" Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." Albert Einstein
Enjoy the Journey.... Kev...


KevWind at Soundcloud
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-02-2012, 08:14 PM
Bob1131 Bob1131 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 6,931
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
Not trying to be argumentative but I would guess Jack Johnson is tracking in a nice big room designed with reverb built in. So while not adding reverb it is very likely to some extent in the orginal recording.
My point is that IF there is any reverb in his tracks it is so minimum that it is not noticeable. Here is one of his tracks, listen and tell me that you hear reverb on his voice: Jack Johnson
__________________
ShowcaseYourMusic (covers)

ReverbNation (originals)

SoundCloud (the Hobo Troubadour)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-02-2012, 10:53 PM
moon moon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Scotland YES!
Posts: 1,983
Default

Reverb can really suck the tone out of an instrument if it's too bright or add a lot of mud if there's too much low end bouncing around in the reverb algorithm. You have to tune it in very carefully.

My standard setup is a simple plate plugin with high pass and low pass filters on the way in, and maybe a post-fader delay feeding back into the reverb bus (careful with the level on an infinite feedback loop...). The delay will be very low, barely audible but it can add a sense of a larger, more complex space.

My general rule (like all rules made to be broken) is that, if you're aware of the reverb, it's too much. Turn it down a notch. It's the space around a sound; it shouldn't jump out at you.

Last edited by moon; 07-07-2012 at 10:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-03-2012, 05:47 AM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 1,333
Default

All good points.

I generally use two stereo reverbs; a short one and a long one.

The amount does seem to vary in what we hear today. The Church's "Under the Milkyway" comes to mind as more than enough.

Some people do it to hide their vocals, whether they are bad or not.

You do need to tune the reverb for eq and time. Too much low end and it's muddy. If the phrasing and tempo of the tune are quick, long reverbs sound sloppy.

I use monitors when I mix, but I go back and listen to reverb in the mix with headphones. Usually I reduce the reverb even more because it sound too much in the phones.

Reverb gets eaten up a lot by the music. You may not realize how much reverb you have until you hit the stop button and hear it ring out.

Here's reverb on the guitar, but not on my voice.

Regards,

Ty Ford
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-03-2012, 06:42 AM
SeamusORiley SeamusORiley is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: US
Posts: 1,085
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty Ford View Post
All good points.

I generally use two stereo reverbs; a short one and a long one.

The amount does seem to vary in what we hear today. The Church's "Under the Milkyway" comes to mind as more than enough.

Some people do it to hide their vocals, whether they are bad or not.

You do need to tune the reverb for eq and time. Too much low end and it's muddy. If the phrasing and tempo of the tune are quick, long reverbs sound sloppy.

I use monitors when I mix, but I go back and listen to reverb in the mix with headphones. Usually I reduce the reverb even more because it sound too much in the phones.

Reverb gets eaten up a lot by the music. You may not realize how much reverb you have until you hit the stop button and hear it ring out.

Here's reverb on the guitar, but not on my voice.

Regards,

Ty Ford
Beautiful, rich, deep sound. Wonderful playing.
__________________
Martin 00-15M (gloss custom)
Pono ATD 2 Tenor Ukulele
Seagull Merlin
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-03-2012, 10:13 AM
rdm321 rdm321 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 455
Default

If you want to use effects on your vocal tracks, you can also try chorus and EQ. Both are available on GB. I experimented using GB's AU Graphic EQ, which has lots of bands to play with. It's a time-consuming process, but I eventually found the correct bands to reduce the nasal whine in my voice to tolerable levels.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-03-2012, 10:37 AM
Legolas1971 Legolas1971 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 948
Default

I use very little reverb. I don't use any on drums. I prefer them
dry. I don't use any on acoustic guitars either because I have a pretty
good room to record in and the mics pick up natural reverb reflections. I will use some on vocals if the need arises but i really try to ease it in. Nothing dramatic. Sometimes I'll use a generous amount if I'm using the EBOW. In which case I'll also use delay......
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-03-2012, 10:43 AM
SeamusORiley SeamusORiley is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: US
Posts: 1,085
Default

The replies are helpful; thank you.

It would be helpful if anyone has a demo where the same song is done with reverb and without.

thanks!
__________________
Martin 00-15M (gloss custom)
Pono ATD 2 Tenor Ukulele
Seagull Merlin
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-04-2012, 12:04 PM
Bob1131 Bob1131 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 6,931
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeamusORiley View Post
The replies are helpful; thank you.

It would be helpful if anyone has a demo where the same song is done with reverb and without.

thanks!
Here you go! This is a DRY demo and this is the same recording with REVERB.

The guitar was recorded with a spaced pair panned hard left and right, while the vocal was recorded center to a stereo channel. The reverb added is a "hall" type with a decay time of 2.4 sec at approximately 60% volume. I applied 10% to the guitar and 18% to the vocal (reverb to source mix). If my mix was successful, then you should notice the reverb on stops and loud swells, thus simulating a performance in a concert hall. A "room" reverb would have a shorter decay and a bigger concert venue might have a longer decay.
__________________
ShowcaseYourMusic (covers)

ReverbNation (originals)

SoundCloud (the Hobo Troubadour)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-04-2012, 02:21 PM
SeamusORiley SeamusORiley is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: US
Posts: 1,085
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob1131 View Post
Here you go! This is a DRY demo and this is the same recording with REVERB.

The guitar was recorded with a spaced pair panned hard left and right, while the vocal was recorded center to a stereo channel. The reverb added is a "hall" type with a decay time of 2.4 sec at approximately 60% volume. I applied 10% to the guitar and 18% to the vocal (reverb to source mix). If my mix was successful, then you should notice the reverb on stops and loud swells, thus simulating a performance in a concert hall. A "room" reverb would have a shorter decay and a bigger concert venue might have a longer decay.
First of all: your voice is...well, wow! Your voice matches the beauty of the guitar playing.

Secondly, the richness of the reverb is evident. This is a great sample for someone like me just learning.

Thank you for posting it for the sample, but thank you for posting it for enjoying of Time in a Bottle. It's a beautiful version.
__________________
Martin 00-15M (gloss custom)
Pono ATD 2 Tenor Ukulele
Seagull Merlin
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-04-2012, 02:53 PM
Doug Young's Avatar
Doug Young Doug Young is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 6,693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeamusORiley View Post
The replies are helpful; thank you.

It would be helpful if anyone has a demo where the same song is done with reverb and without.

thanks!
Here's a demo I posted a while back, taking you thru the mixing process of a solo guitar track, including hearing the raw tracks dry, then 2 different reverbs being added. This is a pretty subtle example, just going for some ambience in the recording, not a cathedral effect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5kCVXyQDys
__________________
Doug Young
----------------
Music on Pandora
You Tube Channel
website: http://www.dougyoungguitar.com
Fingerstyle Christmas Tunes: A DADGAD Christmas
CDs: Closing Time, Laurel Mill
Pickup tests: http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/pickuptests/
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=