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  #31  
Old 06-20-2010, 08:02 AM
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open-road-matt open-road-matt is offline
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Thanks alohachris!
Sounds like a great concert!

I have another question for you. I was looking a little closer at those speakers, the Yamaha HS80M's. If I am able to put together a budget of around $1k for monitors, which after hearing about the Adam Audio A7's, the Dynaudio BM5A's, etc. seems to be a better ball park to be in, would it be worth considering a package like this:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...age?sku=601436

Are the HS80M's good enough monitors that with the sub, at just over $1k total, would I end up with an as good or better overall package than just say the Adam Audio A7's (as an example) at $1k?

I guess what I'm trying to ask is: how do you think these Yamahas, with a sub compare to some of the other monitors I've looked at around $1k for just the pair of monitors?

I know that monitors are a personal decision and that I need to hear them all and decide for myself but if I'm going to be testing these out and shipping them back and forth to do so, I need to narrow the list down.

Thanks!
Matt
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  #32  
Old 06-20-2010, 10:10 AM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by open-road-matt View Post
Thanks alohachris!
Sounds like a great concert!

I have another question for you. I was looking a little closer at those speakers, the Yamaha HS80M's. If I am able to put together a budget of around $1k for monitors, which after hearing about the Adam Audio A7's, the Dynaudio BM5A's, etc. seems to be a better ball park to be in, would it be worth considering a package like this:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...age?sku=601436

Are the HS80M's good enough monitors that with the sub, at just over $1k total, would I end up with an as good or better overall package than just say the Adam Audio A7's (as an example) at $1k?

I guess what I'm trying to ask is: how do you think these Yamahas, with a sub compare to some of the other monitors I've looked at around $1k for just the pair of monitors?

I know that monitors are a personal decision and that I need to hear them all and decide for myself but if I'm going to be testing these out and shipping them back and forth to do so, I need to narrow the list down.

Thanks!
Matt
I don't record using bass guitar or other instruments creating fundamentals below 63 Hz. You will be recording and mixing bass which has frequencies down to 40 Hz. So, my personal experiences with monitors won't be of much use to you.

Still, you will have to make a decision as to whether you will use a subwoofer or not. If you choose to not use a sub, you will need monitors that can reasonably handle those low frequencies. If you go with a sub, some of your budget will be used for the sub and less for the nearfields.

I would suggest making this decision first.
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  #33  
Old 06-20-2010, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by sdelsolray View Post
I don't record using bass guitar or other instruments creating fundamentals below 63 Hz. You will be recording and mixing bass which has frequencies down to 40 Hz. So, my personal experiences with monitors won't be of much use to you.

Still, you will have to make a decision as to whether you will use a subwoofer or not. If you choose to not use a sub, you will need monitors that can reasonably handle those low frequencies. If you go with a sub, some of your budget will be used for the sub and less for the nearfields.

I would suggest making this decision first.
That is an excellent suggestion. I really appreciate the help.

I just glanced quickly at the specs on Musicians Friend of several of the different monitors I've been considering and NONE of them listed a frequency response as low as 40 Hz. The lowest were the Yamaha HS80M's at 42 Hz.

So going purely off the specs, I would need a subwoofer and that makes the Yamaha package I linked to above an attractive package at least price-wise.

Or perhaps this JBL Sub:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...fer?sku=580379

With these monitors:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...tor?sku=580378

There may be other packages I put together, but you are right, if I have to consider a sub, and it sounds like I do, I need to consider packages that bring the monitors and the sub in for around $1k.

Thanks again!
Matt
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  #34  
Old 06-20-2010, 12:17 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by open-road-matt View Post
That is an excellent suggestion. I really appreciate the help.

I just glanced quickly at the specs on Musicians Friend of several of the different monitors I've been considering and NONE of them listed a frequency response as low as 40 Hz. The lowest were the Yamaha HS80M's at 42 Hz.

So going purely off the specs, I would need a subwoofer and that makes the Yamaha package I linked to above an attractive package at least price-wise.

Or perhaps this JBL Sub:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...fer?sku=580379

With these monitors:

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...tor?sku=580378

There may be other packages I put together, but you are right, if I have to consider a sub, and it sounds like I do, I need to consider packages that bring the monitors and the sub in for around $1k.

Thanks again!
Matt
To be complete, the LH spec should be stated as xx Hz at -y.z dB.

xx = frequency
-y.z = loss of frequency at xx stated in decibels.

For example, 42 Hz at -3 dB, or 42 Hz at -10 dB.

The first example would be fine for your needs. The second example not so much so.
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  #35  
Old 06-20-2010, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdelsolray View Post
To be complete, the LH spec should be stated as xx Hz at -y.z dB.

xx = frequency
-y.z = loss of frequency at xx stated in decibels.

For example, 42 Hz at -3 dB, or 42 Hz at -10 dB.
You are correct, that is how they are listed, for the most part.

On Musicians Friend they list the JBL LSR 2328P with a frequency response of 44 Hz - 18 kHz and then they list something called a "Low Frequency Extension (-10dB): 37 Hz. On the JBL site they list the frequency range as 37 Hz - 20 kHz. Neither site lists a + or -.

Yamaha HS80M on Musicians Friend lists a frequency response of 42 Hz - 20 kHz, no plus or minus. A brochure I got from Yamaha's website shows the same frequency response with (-10db)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdelsolray View Post
The first example would be fine for your needs. The second example not so much so.
Sorry, I lost you here. Do you mean that one complete package (monitors and subs) would work for me and the other not as much. (i.e. the Yamaha package would work and the JBL would not or vice versa.)

Thanks again for all the help!
Matt
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  #36  
Old 06-20-2010, 01:13 PM
sdelsolray sdelsolray is offline
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Originally Posted by open-road-matt View Post
Sorry, I lost you here. Do you mean that one complete package (monitors and subs) would work for me and the other not as much. (i.e. the Yamaha package would work and the JBL would not or vice versa.)

Thanks again for all the help!
Matt
No. I was referring to my examples:

Quote:
For example, 42 Hz at -3 dB, or 42 Hz at -10 dB.
A pair of nearfields with the first spec would be fine for your needs. The second example would not.
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  #37  
Old 06-20-2010, 01:25 PM
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No. I was referring to my examples:



A pair of nearfields with the first spec would be fine for your needs. The second example would not.
Thanks!
Matt
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  #38  
Old 06-21-2010, 01:50 PM
alohachris alohachris is offline
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Default Aloha Matt! You Need A Subwoofer in Your Price Range

Aloha Matt,

Was out on the balmy Pacific all day yesterday sailing, pickin' and tellin' lies. Sorry I missed ya. Glad Sdel took over with the facts! I learned a lot from his posts. Thanks SDEL!

Although I plan to only rarely record bass, I think if you do, that you should get a subwoofer to go with the smaller near-fields in your price range. Sdel's numbers & manufact. specs don't lie re: lowest frequencies we can feel more than hear..

I've tried some of Logic's bass loops in my experiments, but only through the Daed W-803 mid-fields. Sounds great on those.

Not to be a jerk here, but a pair of those A-7's with a sub could be heaven. I'm talkiing as much for me too, Matt. Still saving for those.

But the 8" woofers on those HS80m Yamaha's are pretty low-end revealing, from what I've heard on them. I like those near-field best in the under $1K range. I like them better than the Focal 6's!

Hey, all the best with today's move. Be safe!

alohachris
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  #39  
Old 06-21-2010, 03:51 PM
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Hey alohachris!
I too was happy sdelsolray weighed in. I always appreciate his wisdom.

I would love to be able to get a pair of A7's and a sub but it's just not in the budget right now. Maybe down the road.

Once we get settled and I play through my busy mid-July - mid-September I need to start laying down tracks for another record so I need to get something in the fairly near future.

I'll probably try that Yamaha package first, the HS80m's with the sub and see how those sound to me.

It seems like, (and my logic could be totally flawed here) that the best thing to do is to pick a set that sound good and then "learn them," so to speak. Meaning that I will learn how mixes on my monitors transfer to other systems.

Matt
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  #40  
Old 06-27-2010, 12:32 AM
Monsoon1 Monsoon1 is offline
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In a previous life, I spent around 20 years digging into every single known aspect of speaker design/building.

And I think I can clear up a couple of points here.

Near field monitors are simply 2 way.
Hate to burst anyone's bubble, but that's all there is to it.
The reason has to do with crossover design, and it would take a very long winded explanation that might give anyone new to this a big headache. (it's gonna be long winded as it is, lol)

But suffice it to say that the math behind this is precisely why it's common to see monitors laid on their side and tilted in by a certain amount. It's because the true center point of the sound does not come directly straight forward from the cabinet, but rather off at an angle. So by laying the monitor on the side and tilting it in at an angle proportional to the crossover slope, you are in effect compensating for crossover issues.

And when I say the sound comes off at an angle, what I mean by this is the true center point of phase where the sound is actually merged in space, comes off at an angle, and not straight forward as might otherwise seem.

Now as far as comments about limiting diffractions, room boundary effects, etc., those are completely coincidental to this, and have everything to do with placement, rather than the fact that the monitor is "near field".


As far as 3-way speakers go, there is no single point of angle that you can lay the monitor down at to correct for the crossover slope. This is because there are now two crossover slopes that are not both correctable at the same time by tilting the cabinets to any degree.

One modern solution to this sort of business, is to use a D'Appolito configuration, which puts the mid-bass woofer on the bottom and top of a tweeter.
This creates a unique situation where the sound does actually come directly in a straight line from the cabinet.
These are also called MTM monitors, and the tweeter of the cabinet can be placed perfectly centerline to the ears, and pointing directly forward. And this works both with the cabinet standing straight up and also on it's side.
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  #41  
Old 06-27-2010, 12:39 AM
Monsoon1 Monsoon1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdelsolray View Post
To be complete, the LH spec should be stated as xx Hz at -y.z dB.

xx = frequency
-y.z = loss of frequency at xx stated in decibels.

For example, 42 Hz at -3 dB, or 42 Hz at -10 dB.

The first example would be fine for your needs. The second example not so much so.
Agreed.

The -10db figures are nearly useless. Especially if the speaker is vented, in which case it might as well be a brick wall filter below that point.
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