Non-adjustable truss rods?

[jay42]

Just wondering if there many non-adjustable truss rod guitars in the Custom zone?

[Aspiring]

I have a John Kinnaird West Coast with non adjustable carbon reinforced neck. He offers a truss rod as an option. So far so good with it. Neck has been extremely stable even in drop tunes.

[K20C]

I’ve had two guitars by J Kinnaird. One with adjustable truss rod and one with ebony bar. No trouble with either.

[Tim McKnight]

I use truss rods in 98% of my guitars but in my Pre-war inspired sub 3# OM-ish guitars I use a carbon fiber bar.

[Bruce Sexauer]

When asked, or just because I love the lighter weight, I use a couple of carbon fiber bars instead of an adjustable steel system. It saves about 3.5 ounces. Once the set-up is right, it is highly unlikely to need further attention . . . unless your set-up preferences change, or you want a different string tension. Since I build most of my guitars for specific string tension, I certainly don't advise using other than that guitar's specified strings on any of them.

Do not confuse ebony with carbon, both their strength and their stability are in completely different ball parks.

[justonwo]

Many of my guitars have carbon rods. All the guitars by John Slobod. One by Burton LeGeyt. One by Howard Klepper. Great for light weight, and if done properly they never move. At least not in the years I’ve had them.

[jay42]

So is a light weight neck important to the end result or more of an aesthetic choice and comfort thing?

[Guitars44me]

Originally Posted by justonwo

Many of my guitars have carbon rods. All the guitars by John Slobod. One by Burton LeGeyt. One by Howard Klepper. Great for light weight, and if done properly they never move. At least not in the years I’ve had them.

Juston, do your instruments have adjustable truss rods as well? John Kinnard has built me two now with Carbon Fiber D shaped tubes and NO adjustable TR.
They have worked great for years now. The D tubes are lighter than the wood they replace, and the necks are very VERY stable.

I think it’s interesting to remember that the golden age Martens that now cost as much as a house all had Ebony rods in the neck. Martin didn’t start using adjustable truss rods until the 60s I believe…

John K’s lightweight necks, combined with the 12 fret design certainly leads to a nice light and comfy Instrument. I am quite lazy, and I don’t want to have to hold up the Headstock of my guitar I have enough to do already. Ha ha ha.

I know there’s a number of high-end luthier‘s using carbon fiber in the necks. I believe most also use a truss rod, but I know some do not always do so.

Hope this information helps

Merry Christmas/Kwanzaa/Hanukkah/Festivus/solstice

Paul.

[Cocobolo Kid]

There are also titanium truss rods available if anyone is looking for the functionality of an adjustable truss rod combined with extremely light weight.

My Kraut 00 has an adjustable titanium truss rod.

[justonwo]

Originally Posted by Guitars44me

Juston, do your instruments have adjustable truss rods as well? John Kinnard has built me two now with Carbon Fiber D shaped tubes and NO adjustable TR.
They have worked great for years now. The D tubes are lighter than the wood they replace, and the necks are very VERY stable.

I think it’s interesting to remember that the golden age Martens that now cost as much as a house all had Ebony rods in the neck. Martin didn’t start using adjustable truss rods until the 60s I believe…

John K’s lightweight necks, combined with the 12 fret design certainly leads to a nice light and comfy Instrument. I am quite lazy, and I don’t want to have to hold up the Headstock of my guitar I have enough to do already. Ha ha ha.

I know there’s a number of high-end luthier‘s using carbon fiber in the necks. I believe most also use a truss rod, but I know some do not always do so.

Hope this information helps

Merry Christmas/Kwanzaa/Hanukkah/Festivus/solstice

Paul.

Hey Paul, of the guitars I own now only the Fairbanks SJ, Brondel A-2, and one of the LeGeyts have adjustable truss rods. All the rest have non-adjustable carbon rods. Those non-adjustable rods have all been perfectly stable for me, so I can’t say that I miss the adjustment. That being said, you need to know your specs and preferred relief before you commit.

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by justonwo

Hey Paul, of the guitars I own now only the Fairbanks SJ, Brondel A-2, and one of the LeGeyts have adjustable truss rods. All the rest have non-adjustable carbon rods. Those non-adjustable rods have all been perfectly stable for me, so I can’t say that I miss the adjustment. That being said, you need to know your specs and preferred relief before you commit.

If you really had to, you could make adjustments through compression fretting, no? Obviously a lot more surgery that turning an adjustable truss rod…

[justonwo]

Originally Posted by sinistral

If you really had to, you could make adjustments through compression fretting, no? Obviously a lot more surgery that turning an adjustable truss rod…

Yeah, the relief can be adjusted. I suppose you could mess around with the tang thickness and attempt to adjust relief. Or you could Plek the desired relief into the frets, but then you might have a slight fret height discrepancy. Better to know what you want at the outset. Yeah, it can be changed but it’s a pain.

[Mbroady]

Originally Posted by Guitars44me

Juston, do your instruments have adjustable truss rods as well? John Kinnard has built me two now with Carbon Fiber D shaped tubes and NO adjustable TR.
They have worked great for years now. The D tubes are lighter than the wood they replace, and the necks are very VERY stable.

I think it’s interesting to remember that the golden age Martens that now cost as much as a house all had Ebony rods in the neck. Martin didn’t start using adjustable truss rods until the 60s I believe…

John K’s lightweight necks, combined with the 12 fret design certainly leads to a nice light and comfy Instrument. I am quite lazy, and I don’t want to have to hold up the Headstock of my guitar I have enough to do already. Ha ha ha.

I know there’s a number of high-end luthier‘s using carbon fiber in the necks. I believe most also use a truss rod, but I know some do not always do so.

Hope this information helps

Merry Christmas/Kwanzaa/Hanukkah/Festivus/solstice

Paul.

I don’t know of any Martins prior to 1985 that had adjustable truss rods. My guess is it was costing them loads of money on warranty neck work, and an adjustable truss rod was the solution going forward. That and customer demand.

[hubcapsc]

This info is from guitarhq.com:

Neck Truss Rod.

1928-ish: Ebony neck reinforcement under fingerboard for strength.
Late 1934: Steel "T" bar. Thickness varies, but generally speaking both sections of the T is 0.125", width and height is 0.525" (kind of like Flexible Flyer sled runners). The bar is glued into the neck with Hide glue.
1942: Ebony neck reinforcement under fingerboard (war time shortage of steel)
1945/1946: Steel T bar again used sparatically (varies between ebony and steel during these years.)
1947: Steel T bar.
1967: Square steel bar.
1985: Adjustable (inside body) steel truss rod.

-Mike

[jt1]

As Mike has pointed out, Martin began using a non-adjustable metal rod in the 1930s. The company stuck with tradition until 1985 when it finally embraced the adjustable rod.

To this day, many in the Martin community prefer the non-adjustable rods, probably because they correspond to Martin's golden era 1930s guitar.

Gibson began using the adjustable truss rod in 1924. But, like Martin, had to abandon it during WWII when the US government limited metals in stringed instruments to no more than 10% of an instrument's weight.

During WWII, Martin switched back to its ebony rod. Gibson used a maple rod, in the shape of a V, which ran the length of the neck.

I am particularly fond of the WWII-era Gibsons without the metal rod. They are lighter and, to my ear, sound a bit better.

I've had no issues with my two 1943 Gibsons that lack the metal truss rod. Here is one of them: