Down a Rabbit Hole - Schoeps mics with different guitars

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

My guess is that fingerstyle vs pick is the biggest one.

The resonance/reverberation of the Greenfield is part of what grabbed me. I didn't consider all the guitars on the wall in that room, I wonder if that's playing a role. He probably is in a more lively room, seems like TNAG's showroom, and it may not be as dead as my studio space. Likely also bigger - I definitely don't have room for 20 guitars on my wall. This problem often hits even in person. When you stop at Eric Schoenbergs and play a guitar, you never know how many vintage guitars you're really hearing, since you're surrounded by them in a wooden room. You go, wow, this budget guitar sounds just like a pre-war martin! Oh wait, I am hearing 10 pre-war martins all ringing along...

I also had a hard time seeing how far away his mics were, he may have been back further than me. Tho I suspect that alone wouldn't make a huge difference given different rooms.

Most sincerely, I love the way you play Doug. I am glad that your playing style is different than Carl's. Not that one is better than the other...Each has its values. Differences are a good thing. That is what I am personally striving for...to be just a tiny bit different.

For some reason, the Famed Gibson SJ200 had eluded me all these years. I had never played one. Yet so many great recordings were made with that guitar. While visiting my brother back east about 4 years ago I visited a Guitar Shop that carried tons of Vintage instruments. On the top Floor they had a older SJ200. I picked up that guitar and ....oh my gosh....everything they said about the SJ200 was TRUE! I could not believe my ears. Sustain galore...so, so beautiful.

I was so enthralled I was ready to go into big time debt. Finally a little voice got a hole of me and I said to the shop Keeper " Do you have a room where I can hear this by itself?" you see, in that little room on the third floor they must have had 50 to 100 guitars stacked side by side and hung on the wall. And the room really wasn't that big either. It was long and narrow. maybe 12th feet wide by 30 feet long. Never seen anything like that.

When I got it down to a close off room with no other guitars...The SJ200 was still good, but certainly nothing extra special. The great sound I was hearing was from the other guitars in that room.

I also started to realize that a lot of the Demos made at the England North American Rooms had lots of guitars in the background. Cause every guitar sounds fantastic in those demos don't they? Not saying they are not, but no question Guitars on the wall add to the sound. I learned my lesson well from my adventure playing in a room full of guitars. You can not tell what that guitar sounds like unless you get it off on its own.

Also notice how a lot of guitar rooms line their walls with Cedar strips? That is another sound enhancer. And yet another Showroom I visited had heavy oak floors. Heavy Oak Floors add a wonderful verb to the room. I use to love playing at a friend of mine's house that had no carpet and oak floors. The sound was so alive.

Anyway...the quest for the ultimate, is a fun one. Some people say you should be happy with what you have, and that chasing the rainbow only leads to disappointment. But I do not believe that for a second. Chasing the rainbow leads to discovery. Hopefully Discovery will turn satisfaction from the knowledge you have aquired. Regardless if it does or doesn't, the journey is what we remember the most in life. Sometimes the thrill dies after we find that pot of gold. Cause then we no longer need to search.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by jklotz

But I get it, inspiration that hits needs to be explored.

Yeah, that was kind of the motivation. On one hand, it's good to just do your own thing, but I find once in a while it's good to explore what someone else is doing, whether it's how to play something, or how they get a sound on a recording. Combine that with, "that guitar sure sounds good" :-), and I had to play around with it!

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Yeah, that was kind of the motivation. On one hand, it's good to just do your own thing, but I find once in a while it's good to explore what someone else is doing, whether it's how to play something, or how they get a sound on a recording. Combine that with, "that guitar sure sounds good" :-), and I had to play around with it!

Good point often a reference track can be a good reset. And reexamination of ones sonic goals ...
Also yes glad you mentioned (I forgot in my variations list) the difference between pic and finger which can be substantial and in fact be very different in sound , not only the attack but overall balance ...

[Crosswind]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Thanks for all the thoughts, some interesting observations. I was hoping for a few different ears to point things out, as I'd gotten a bit numb to it. It is a futile exercise :-) with so many variables. My guess is that fingerstyle vs pick is the biggest one. I thought about using a pick, but that's not really what I'd be interested in anyway, and since it's something I rarely use these days, I'd be at a serious disadvantage right off the bat!

The resonance/reverberation of the Greenfield is part of what grabbed me. I didn't consider all the guitars on the wall in that room, I wonder if that's playing a role. He probably is in a more lively room, seems like TNAG's showroom, and it may not be as dead as my studio space. Likely also bigger - I definitely don't have room for 20 guitars on my wall. This problem often hits even in person. When you stop at Eric Schoenbergs and play a guitar, you never know how many vintage guitars you're really hearing, since you're surrounded by them in a wooden room. You go, wow, this budget guitar sounds just like a pre-war martin! Oh wait, I am hearing 10 pre-war martins all ringing along...

I also had a hard time seeing how far away his mics were, he may have been back further than me. Tho I suspect that alone wouldn't make a huge difference given different rooms.

One thing I noticed as I posted it and listened one last time, is what I often learn in these exercises. I think the little sparse arpeggios are what grabbed me in this, where you really hear the Greenfield ringing. Carl is milking those notes, and after me playing this thing 20 times, I think I was getting impatient, and am not letting those notes bloom the way he is. So performance and phrasing differences come into play.

I was surprised by the Lowden, it sounds much better on the recording thanit sounds to me in person. I haven't recorded much (maybe not anything) with that guitar. It really needs 10 years of hard playing on it, but it comes across pretty competitively on the recording, I think.

Overall, I'm feeling like I didn't hit the mark on sounding exactly like Carl, but I'm not unhappy with the sound of these 3 on this example, even if they're a bit different.

This is a great point, and the reverb (room or added in post) is the biggest difference to my ears as well. It is audible in almost all of TNAG's recordings.

[rick-slo]

Quite a different sound. Did not hurt flatpicking those solo note lines.

[Kenny B]

I finally got a chance to listen to these the tracks and was mightily impressed with playing on all parts. I don't have any suggestions or noteworthy remarks other than what has already been said, but I wanted to add that I enjoyed listening and the comparison of the guitars in their respective recording environments.