Matching Mics to Audio Interface

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by jim1960

Yes, it takes the Scarlett's preamps (the weakest part of your unit) out of the equation and the Scarlett now will only handle the AD/DA work.

Maybe you didn't see what Kev shared in a post above. Evidently with the Scarlett, the pre amp is still in the equation.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by KevWind

A good goal (but can be expensive) Let me refer you to my other post. #25 with the screen shot ( I originally posted the wrong image ) of an excerpt from the Focusrite support site about bypassing the Pre's So if you use the combi jacks then the pre amps circuits remain in the chain BUT as they note it may not matter a great deal

Kev,

In reading what Focusrite states, it seems the Scarlett preamps remain in play if you connect an external preamp to the Scarlett's combo XLR/jack inputs via a 1/4" jack cable. On something like the Sebatron Axis Jim uses, I think you have a choice of XLR or 1/4" jack connection on the Axis outputs so you could use an XLR cable which might be the way to bypass the Scarlett preamps(?). If that is accurate, than the Scarlett does just become a converter and interface(?).

Cheers,

Bob

[FrankHudson]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi SB

I'm taking a 'practical' approach.

There are better preamps than Scarlett out there. They also cost substantially more.

Scarlett, and a long list of other preamps, get good reviews from average players and listeners, because they produce GOOD RESULTS.

If you are playing/saving/dispensing your music on SoundCloud, YouTube, FaceBook, Zoom etc. then people are likely consuming it on their phones, tablets, and computers.

None of the common ways MOST people listen to our music is maximizing the current level of capability of your gear.

Only very picky people will hear & note any difference, even if you are using a $10,000 handbuilt preamp with $20,000 mics.

Buy the way…the one or two who might hear/take note of the difference will be making mental adjustments to your inferior results…my use of the word inferior is intended as irony.

If it matters to you, then by all means spend more, and take the time to learn to operate/maximize another piece of gear.

I first want to say that this post and the other one of his LJ is elaborating on upthread has a lot of wisdom in it, and even if one disagrees with it in whole or in part, the questions is poses and implies are important ones.

There is a place for recording just for self-enjoyment (I was going to say "hobby," but it sounds derogatory). I've got no gripes with that goal/approach and it sounds like that's what the OP believes they are aiming for.

There is also a place for music as a performing art, of which recording may be a subset. Money spent on equipment (including our guitars) is much less important in that set of goals. I'm not saying no importance. I'm not saying make lousy recordings. I'm not saying that many of us have been moved as the listener part of a performing art by well-engineered recordings using expensive equipment.

So OP or others reading this thread make sure of your goals. "If you don't know where you're aiming to go, you'll end up somewhere else" as the saying goes.

The secondary point I read here and elsewhere seems important too: learning to use your equipment is key to quality. I've engaged in the somewhat foolish low-priced to mid-priced evolution of my recording gear over the years. In my defense, low-priced was the only option for me at the beginning other than taking out a loan for a non-commercial enterprise which could have been a greater folly.

"By once, cry once, use it for years" is consistent with that second point. But then too, something like "I feel my recordings are stuck at some level. What equipment will change that?" can also conflict with that "learn to use your equipment well" principle.

I'm not skilled enough or focused enough to answer the question about which of those two outcomes or mix of outcomes is more likely from the OP's question. So I listen to others here who may be more experienced, skilled, focused, etc and what they say about these maters.

My point (did I finally get to one?) is for our experts here to keep in mind these two factors as they share their experiences, and to thank LJGuitar for his fine encapsulation of the first factor.

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

Kev,

In reading what Focusrite states, it seems the Scarlett preamps remain in play if you connect an external preamp to the Scarlett's combo XLR/jack inputs via a 1/4" jack cable. On something like the Sebatron Axis Jim uses, I think you have a choice of XLR or 1/4" jack connection on the Axis outputs so you could use an XLR cable which might be the way to bypass the Scarlett preamps(?). If that is accurate, than the Scarlett does just become a converter and interface(?).

Cheers,

Bob

Bob, there isn't a way to fully bypass your Scarlett preamps; whether you use an XLR or a 1/4" connection into the Scarlett. The different input connections on your Scarlett just determine the amount of gain adjustment in the Scarlett. When you use the XLR the Scarlett assumes a mic is plugged in and a lot of gain is available. When you plug in a 1/4" then the Scarlett assumes the signal is at a line level and less gain is made available. But either way, the signal goes through the Scarlett's preamp. Still, using an external preamp with the Scarlett will give you improvement (because the Scarlett's preamp won't be running at a high gain so will be less noisy).

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by runamuck

Maybe you didn't see what Kev shared in a post above. Evidently with the Scarlett, the pre amp is still in the equation.

I missed that. Yet another downfall of a cheap interface. But with the switch on the Scarlett set to "line," the external preamp would do the heavy lifting. So while the Scarlett preamp is still in the equation, it's having a minimal effect by comparison. Not ideal by any stretch but still better.

To get to where it sounds like he wants to go, I think SprintBob will need to upgrade that interface. And as I said earlier, I'd want something with some high quality preamps and excellent conversion. If I were him, and I had to have a USB interface, I'd be looking at the Lynx Aurora(n) 8 USB. It's $2600 but I think that's about the top of the class right now.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

Kev,

In reading what Focusrite states, it seems the Scarlett preamps remain in play if you connect an external preamp to the Scarlett's combo XLR/jack inputs via a 1/4" jack cable. On something like the Sebatron Axis Jim uses, I think you have a choice of XLR or 1/4" jack connection on the Axis outputs so you could use an XLR cable which might be the way to bypass the Scarlett preamps(?). If that is accurate, than the Scarlett does just become a converter and interface(?).

Cheers,

Bob

Yes the wording in the excerpt is a bit ambiguous, because I guess it already assumes that an XLR plugged into the The Combi Jack is going to be a mic, and will be put through the full preamp mic circuit.

So no,, as Chuck mentions above an XLR from the external Pre will not bypass the Scarlet preamp.
But as the excerpt and Jim mention,,,, that may not matter all that much. Personally I do not think the Scarlet would be a big disservice to something like the the Sebatron.
Me (unless I had a lot of disposable cash to throw at it ) I would probably opt for an external mic pre first, and see how that goes and then in the future determine if a new interface is what you might want.
Because I tend to agree with Jim unless your going to go into a top tier interface I am not sure how much audible improvement you would get with a mid level vs the Scarlet .. Just my thoughts

[stephenT]

Check out Audient. Their mic preamps in their interfaces are world class. That's where I'd spend my bucks first.

IMO, you get a dedicated snazzy mic pre but you're still running through the Scarlett, you've improved nothing. The Scarlett's the reducing valve.

Check out the reviews.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...--audient-id14

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by stephenT

Their mic preamps in their interfaces are world class.

I'm sorry but you don't get "world class" preamps for $300. That is not going to be a significant improvement over the Scarlett which has similar reviews.

[MikeBmusic]

If anyone asked, or you mentioned it, I missed it - how are you LISTENING to your recordings? In that same 8x10x8 room? Almost a cube, and a small one at that, probably one of the worst situations for recording and listening. Unless you have a different place/system to listen (or you only use a set of high-end headphones), you are not really going to hear any difference in your recordings by switching to an external preamp for those mics.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by MikeBmusic

If anyone asked, or you mentioned it, I missed it - how are you LISTENING to your recordings? In that same 8x10x8 room? Almost a cube, and a small one at that, probably one of the worst situations for recording and listening. Unless you have a different place/system to listen (or you only use a set of high-end headphones), you are not really going to hear any difference in your recordings by switching to an external preamp for those mics.

Monitoring - Sennheiser HD280 Pro headphones
Listening and Mixing - Grado SR325e headphones

I realized early on the limitations of my music room where I play and record and believed investing in quality headphones was a must so I think I have the boxes checked well on that end.

[shufflebeat]

The Scarlett is not the weak link in your recording chain, your room is. Find a nice space to work and play with mic placement. When you've exhausted the possibilities and want to upgrade then a Audient (which I used to use) or an SSL2+ (which I now use) will be excellent choices.

The quality of all but the cheapest modern preamps is beyond the wildest dreams of home recordists of only a few years ago. Listen with your ears.

Mmm..., I notice the end of my post was edited (presumably by mods, entirely your prerogative, of course), perhaps my wording was clumsy. I should have written, "I am constantly reminding myself to listen with my ears, not my ego". I hope that is clearer and doesn't offend, that was not the intention.

N.B. I come from a Psychology background where the term "ego" is not necessarily pejorative, apologies if that was the impression.

[pipe dreamer]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

Which Presonus Quantum model do you have?

I have the quantum 26x32 , it’s not cheap, but it is by comparable units from other brands like UA. I was attracted to both the true line inputs and the near zero latency

The cheapest unit I found with true line inputs is the audient id22 and id44. They get great reviews as stand alone units plus ability to add external mic pre such as sebatron. By the way, I have the sebatron quad plus. I absolutely love it so highly recommend them as a brand for mic pres

If it’s a true line input, then the gain from the interface should do nothing at all. If it’s not true then the gain from interface can alter the signal level.

[SprintBob]

And here is Mr. Michael Watts who is one of my fingerstyle idols. He goes through his home recording setup here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQV2...sHKXG28huEGuZH

He places priority on having outstanding guitars (Kostal) and mics (Gefell M300’s) but uses a relatively inexpensive (all in one) interface, an Apogee Duet (probably around $650 when he got it) that goes into Logic Pro. Listen to his YT videos and judge for yourself but obviously a simple setup with the emphasis on really good mics, great guitars, world class talent, and most likely a decent room to record in.

I guess this led me to my original question of can I do better than the Scarlett for the mics I have. But I will admit that the recommendation of a mic preamp into an interface with line inputs is very compelling. This has been very educational for me.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

And here is Mr. Michael Watts who is one of my fingerstyle idols. He goes through his home recording setup here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQV2...sHKXG28huEGuZH

He places priority on having outstanding guitars (Kostal) and mics (Gefell M300’s) but uses a relatively inexpensive (all in one) interface, an Apogee Duet (probably around $650 when he got it) that goes into Logic Pro.

The Duet is a very nice interface/preamp, almost certainly a significant step up over the Scarlett. Whether it would make an audible difference is hard to predict. There are so many variables, and the "weakest link" always applies.

The one downside to the Duet is that the wires and so on are a bit cumbersome, since the unit itself is small, but has a breakout cable, with more wires than you usually need. It kind of depends on your setup. There are excellent desktop all-in-1's, like the Apogee Symphony, or UAD or the Apollo Twin or Solo - which would get my vote as it's not only great quality, but you can run (and spend your money on...) UAD plugins.

If you haven't seen this old thread of mine, I compared a bunch of preamps and interfaces. I've never had a Scarlet, but the test includes the Zoom H6, a $400 unit that's probably roughly in the same class. I just listened and I have no idea what I'm playing on this :-) but it might give you some idea of what an "upgrade" might do for you (I posted it blind originally, but the Zoom is #3. #1 is the Apogee Ensemble, which is probably similar to the Duet, just multi-channel)

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=526149

There's also this one, from just a few months ago. No budget preamps in this one, but there is a bit of a spread in terms of price and tube vs solid state, so again, some idea of how much difference there might be between different preamps in general:

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=602157

[sdelsolray]

For versatility, I would suggest that any interface you might get should have separate line-in inputs, using a separate circuit path from any built-in preamps on their path toward the converters or monitoring circuits. You can tell if this feature is present in an interface because when using the line-in jacks (e.g., from the output of an external preamp), the gain controls on the interface do not change the level of the line-in input signal.