#46
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The console I was running when my boss came in and growled was a Neve 8058. To do it within the Neve you just link a pair of 32264 compressors for left and right. they are about ten inches above my right hand. Dig my 1982 hair and beard: As I recall, that wasn't the only time that boss threatened to choke me. Bob
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"It is said, 'Go not to the elves for counsel for they will say both no and yes.' " Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring THE MUSICIAN'S ROOM (my website) |
#47
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Absolutely. In fact, one friend of mine, who has several Grammys, mixes out of Pro Tools into 4 stereo buses on his Neve, each with a compressor strapped on it that he never changes the settings on. He says he can tell if he's too hot or too light just by looking at how the compressors are moving. He says it keeps him from thinking something sounds better because he juiced it.
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-Steve 1927 Martin 00-21 1986 Fender Strat 1987 Ibanez RG560 1988 Fender Fretless J Bass 1991 Washburn HB-35s 1995 Taylor 812ce 1996 Taylor 510c (custom) 1996 Taylor 422-R (Limited Edition) 1997 Taylor 810-WMB (Limited Edition) 1998 Taylor 912c (Custom) 2019 Fender Tele |
#48
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I'm not sure if you mean a hardware LA2A or a plugin, but if you use hardware...see if you can get your hands on an old JoeMeek SC2. The original one from 1995 with the makeup gain knob conveniently located on the back They were a secret weapon for many because of the way they compressed. They had a dirty little secret about their signal path that was killer on the 2-bus. They made things feel really wide & open because they incorporated an M/S encode/decode circuit around the compressor.
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-Steve 1927 Martin 00-21 1986 Fender Strat 1987 Ibanez RG560 1988 Fender Fretless J Bass 1991 Washburn HB-35s 1995 Taylor 812ce 1996 Taylor 510c (custom) 1996 Taylor 422-R (Limited Edition) 1997 Taylor 810-WMB (Limited Edition) 1998 Taylor 912c (Custom) 2019 Fender Tele |
#49
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I do think there's a bit of difference between the sound many of us want for solo guitar (the original topic of this thread) as well as techniques to some extent, compared to larger full band mixes, where a lot of this discussion has ended up. Terms like "2-bus" and ideas like adding compression to each track before the mix are a little less meaningful when your entire "mix" is one track, and some of these "color" effects work against the more pure sound many of us are looking for with fingerstyle solo guitar - which can be more like a classical recording (tho highly variable and subject to style and taste).
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#50
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And to clarify a bit further as to terminology the reason I always use a 2-Bus (which I label 2 Mix) And why I would even for a solo guitar session is because in Pro Tools an "Aux Track" ( 2 -Bus) track all the plugins are pre fader in the signal flow . Where the Master Fader track ( default main stereo output bus) the plugins are post fader
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Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Ventura 12.2.1 |
#51
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#52
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I use busses all the time, and do place some effects in Logic's final "Stereo Out", what it calls the 2-Mix,2-Bus, etc as well as on the individual track(s) and on various busses and submixes, depending on what I'm doing. There's lots of good reasons to use them. But I notice J-Doug hasn't come back since his original question; I'm guessing this was more than he was after :-) For most people, recording solo fingerstyle guitar amounts to setting the levels and adding a little reverb. Maybe some minor EQ, maybe some light compression/limiting. With only 1 track, things can be pretty simple!
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#53
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Yeah, but it may not be for some of the other folks reading this. There seems to be a vast range here when it comes to complexity-tolerance.
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#54
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My Head is spinning trying to understand the exact meaning of Bus, 2 bus, 2 mix terms..! ha ha I know we have somewhat been over this before...but I still get confused. Or does Bus mean that it is applied at the final outcome to the entire mix? Or is it either way. Good things come in Pairs( well actually I hear three's--so maybe one more good news is coming) Now the only problem, is I am leaving on the 24th for a major Traditional Archery tournament and fly fishing adventure in Montana. Can it get here before I leave?.. And even if it does...I will have little time to experiment with it as I am building so many other things in prep for my trip..But I am so curious to see how this Velox preforms for my acoustic guitar. If not, I will certainly use it for voice. This will be the first One made. Normally I would like to buy a first one made. Need some time for testing. However..Buzz Audio has been making Compressors for years..and this is just a variation of a previous design. Yeah, I like VU meters... They just work for me. Hard for me to enjoy those little lights. |
#55
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But for starters in this thread the term 2-bus and 2 -mix mean the same thing. What it actually is ---is a stereo Aux channel that the entire mix is routed to prior to going to the main outs. What is a "BUS" :: First it will help to state what a "Bus" actually is and isn't A "Bus" is technically not a track,,,, repeat -- a "Bus" is not a track (even though some DAWs use the nomenclature "Bus Track" to describe what is technically an Aux track who's input is fed via a Bus Think of a "bus" as a wire (or set of wires for stereo) or a pipeline (or dual pipes) between tracks ..... Or even more fundamentally a Bus (like the names implies in the physical world as a method of transporting one or more people someplace, via a specific route) ,,,,But in this case in the audio world,,,, a means of transporting one or more audio signals, and a way to route audio someplace other than directly to the main outs.. make sense ? Now most DAWs allow you use Busses, in two different ways #1, One way is via "Sends" . Where the "send" splits the audio signal and "sends" the audio in two different directions,,,,, (think of a T fitting in a pipeline and picture the T on its side ).... So one direction is out to the "bus", and the other direction is directly to the tracks output. This is the "bus" method used for parallel processing for things like reverb. ( and parallel processing means the FX plugin or "processor" is not on the audio track itself, instead it is on an aux track,,,, and the audio from the audio track/s is "sent" via a "bus" to the aux track with the plug in on it (the aux tracks input is fed from that '"Bus")........ make sense ? #2 The other use of a "Bus" is to route one or more tracks actual outputs to an Aux track. (usually stereo) This is used for things like grouping tracks outputs Like a group of drum tracks , or a group of guitars etc .
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Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Ventura 12.2.1 Last edited by KevWind; 05-06-2021 at 05:08 PM. |
#56
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Victor, maybe this will help. This is a Logic project, showing the mixer view.
Screen Shot 2021-05-06 at 6.17.19 PM.jpg There are 6 recorded tracks, the 1st 6 columns. All 6 have their outputs (seen in the row labeled "Output") routed to the "Stereo Out". This is what people are calling the "2-bus". Notice that I have plugins on all the individual tracks, and also have a lot of plugins on the Stereo Out, aka 2-bus. The individual track plugins apply just to that track, so whatever that specific track needs, while the plugins on the stereo bus apply to everything - so I think of those as "mastering", final stuff that I want to apply to the entire mix. As Kev said, the Stereo Out looks like a "track", I can do pretty much anything to it that I can do to a track. Add plugins, change volume, EQ, add automation, so on. But it has no audio of its own recorded on it, it's the the place where all the other tracks go before being sent to playback or mixdown. I also have "Sends" on most of the tracks - You see labels of Bus 1 and Bus 2. The sound is sort of tee'd off to a bus, which again is like a track, but with no audio of its own, where I can again do anything I want - add plugins, EQ, volume, automation, and so on. The bus output then goes somewhere. In this case, it goes to the Stereo Out, where it gets combined with the other tracks. I have a reverb on each of those busses, and I can control how much of each individual track gets sent to each bus/reverb. Then on the bus itself, I control the over all reverb level. There are also other things going on here, on Bus 1, I have a plugin that itself sends the signal elsewhere - to a hardware output in this case, and captures its return. So this lets me patch in my hardware reverb. It's essentially another "bus" behind the scenes but it acts like an insert and it's a hardware "bus". If I wanted parallel compression, I can simply send a track to a bus and put a compressor on the bus, then send both to the Stereo Out. Now I have both the raw signal and the compressed signal in parallel, both converging and being blended at the output. If I want to just compress an individual track (not in parallel), I can place a compressor on that track before it goes to the Stereo Out (2-bus). If I want to compress the entire mix, I place a compressor on the Stereo Out. Basically thinking of this stuff as a series of water pipes with tees and junctions, valves and spigot's seems like a reasonable way to visualize the flow. This is a pretty simple example - you can get much more complicated, sending busses to busses to busses, for example, creating any series of serial and parallel effects you want.
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#57
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On the last solo fingerstyle acoustic guitar project I recorded I believe I used 2 u47s and an AEA R88 (stereo ribbon) for a total of 4 tracks. I like to have options when it comes time to mix. I also have the luxury of a commercial studio with a well stocked mic locker.
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-Steve 1927 Martin 00-21 1986 Fender Strat 1987 Ibanez RG560 1988 Fender Fretless J Bass 1991 Washburn HB-35s 1995 Taylor 812ce 1996 Taylor 510c (custom) 1996 Taylor 422-R (Limited Edition) 1997 Taylor 810-WMB (Limited Edition) 1998 Taylor 912c (Custom) 2019 Fender Tele |
#58
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#59
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Thanks so much Doug, I think I am beginning to get it now thanks to your explanation and screen shot. Hmmm? Let me see if I have it somewhat correct by putting it into the simplest of words; By Sending the signal to the buss you are in effect in parallel mode? Can it be this simple? I hope so, cause then I got it. Bussing is for Paralleling. Correct or Not? |
#60
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(In fact, I use Reaper which has no post-fader FX at all, master or otherwise, so the ONLY way to get "post-fader" metering of your final mix is to use a 2-bus and send to the master as de facto post-fader of said 2-bus. That may explain some of the difficulty I was having in this thread.) |