BagAmp in the house!

[BuleriaChk]

I also have an A-Ref (which is supposed to have a wide dispersion...)
But LR Baggs is closer to you...

Originally Posted by jennconducts

Ha! I'm in San Luis Obispo. Let's find those amps!

Jenn

[Bobby1note]

Originally Posted by jennconducts

I have two theaters, two large rehearsal rooms, and a SoloAmp. If there are people with a BA or a Bose on the central CA coast, I'm game! ;-)

Jenn

Can we throw a pair of Yorkville NX55p's into the mix? If so, I'm grabbin' my trusty compass, strappin' on my snowshoes, and I'm outta here. (Lachute, Quebec) 40 centimeters of snow in last 4 days. Arghhhh!!!! Current temperature is a balmy -4* Celsius.

Bob

PS. Don't wait up,,,,, I may be a while.

[FingerPlucked]

Originally Posted by jennconducts

I have two theaters, two large rehearsal rooms, and a SoloAmp. If there are people with a BA or a Bose on the central CA coast, I'm game! ;-)

Jenn

That's a little too far west for me, but if you want to borrow my sound level meter, let me know & I'll send mine out to you.

[FingerPlucked]

Originally Posted by Marshall

How about them Bears ?

It didn't last long, but I liked the part where they weren't losing.

Thanks for putting those videos up, Marshall. It must've taken hours to get all 13 of them uploaded.

[bobbyc]

Originally Posted by Marshall

Well. I probably over reacted. I guess I just got done putting in several hours this weekend trying to give people something to help decide for themselves, and felt like the whole motive was being questioned. I didn't even play anything.

Whatever. I guess I'll apologize and move on.

I'm done with this discussion.

How about them Bears ?

I found your tests quite valuable. They demonstrated the tonal qualities of both units quite well. If someone kept listening back and forth (instead of just taking a quick listen), they would hear a lot more than they think.

Good Job...

[FingerPlucked]

Originally Posted by bobbyc

Thanks for your efforts. I think these tests tell a lot about the tone of both units.

I personally like the SoloAmp a little better. It sounds a little fuller to me with a little more base, and the BagAmp sounds a little thinner to me.

Was the EQ set the same on both units?

The BA was set flat. The SA had the bass boosted on the vocal channel & bass cut on the guitar channel. (I think that's right.) When I played (following Paul), I asked for more treble. If I remember right, that was on the reverb comparison videos.

What you're calling "fuller" I thought sounded muddy. But that's a perception. In comparison, depending on your taste, the SA sounded either fuller or muddier, while the BA sounded clearer or thinner.

[bobbyc]

Originally Posted by FingerPlucked

The BA was set flat. The SA had the bass boosted on the vocal channel & bass cut on the guitar channel. (I think that's right.) When I played (following Paul), I asked for more treble. If I remember right, that was on the reverb comparison videos.

What you're calling "fuller" I thought sounded muddy. But that's a perception. In comparison, depending on your taste, the SA sounded either fuller or muddier, while the BA sounded clearer or thinner.

I don't really know what muddy means, but I think the fact that the SoloAmp has a tweeter, it may give the sound a little more depth (what I meant by fuller). I'm not saying it does (or that I even know what the heck I'm talking about), but it just sounds different to me. I compared the SoloAmp to a Bose L1 at an open mic one night and noticed the same thing.

Thinner to me, means less depth (probably not the right definition), and clearer (to me) is great at low volume levels, but gets pretty harsh at higher levels, at which point you need to make it fuller (muddy it up) a little.

Maybe I just don't know the proper terminology for describing sound...

[FingerPlucked]

Originally Posted by bobbyc

Maybe I just don't know the proper terminology for describing sound...

No, I think you did just fine. You said fuller & thinner. I introduced muddier and clearer. It's all perception.

Your two terms go together:

Fuller ................................ Thinner

Just as mine go together:

Muddier ............................. Clearer

What you're hearing as "fuller", I'm hearing as "muddier". And what you're hearing as "thinner", I'm hearing as "clearer".

There's no right and wrong, it's just a matter of perception, opinion and taste. For you personally, the SA would be the amp to get. For me, the BA is the right amp.

Some people like Martins. I think they sound muddy. Martin fans tend to think Taylors sound thin. I think Taylors have a clearer sound. Nobody's right or wrong, unless they don't buy the guitar that suits their taste.

[bobbyc]

Originally Posted by FingerPlucked

No, I think you did just fine. You said fuller & thinner. I introduced muddier and clearer. It's all perception.

Your two terms go together:

Fuller ................................ Thinner

Just as mine go together:

Muddier ............................. Clearer

What you're hearing as "fuller", I'm hearing as "muddier". And what you're hearing as "thinner", I'm hearing as "clearer".

There's no right and wrong, it's just a matter of perception, opinion and taste. For you personally, the SA would be the amp to get. For me, the BA is the right amp.

Some people like Martins. I think they sound muddy. Martin fans tend to think Taylors sound thin. I think Taylors have a clearer sound. Nobody's right or wrong, unless they don't buy the guitar that suits their taste.

Thanks. And thank you for taking the time to test the units too. I think all these line array units are a very good idea, and they are indeed making a name for themselves.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Pegleg

Hey Joseph -
If you're volunteering to help, then I'll gladly volunteer to be the "class idiot" if that will provide an improvement!

First, let me say "medium gain" would be an improvement from where I am.

Ok, here are the components and settings..

Gibson J45 Rosewood, active pickup, but no controls on guitar.
Fishman Pro-Eq Platinum; volume set at 10 O'clock, input gain set at 3 O'clock, smooth set at 3 O'clock, notch set at 1 O'clock. The eq settings are per the instruction manual for a "stummer" (which is primarily what I am) as follows; bass is boost to + 12db, level is cut all the way down to -12db, level is about midway, freq is slightly cut, treble slightly cut, brilliance is slightly cut. My personal observation is that the eq settings have more impact on tone than on feedback control (within reason) whereas the input gain, volume and notch have more impact on feedback control.
SoloAmp:channel 1, input gain at 1 O'clock, eq high, mid, low all 12 O'clock, -10db pad depressed, reverb set on 3.
So, this is the "guitar path" components and settings.

Senn e945.
Harmony G pedal: input gain set at 1 O'clock, fx set at 1 O'clock, harmony set at 11 O'clock. I only have two of the 5 presets set up.. "1" is fx=room, harmonies set high/low. "5" is fx=echo, harmonies set high/lower. Personal observation is settings don't matter both presets will feedback when I hit the harmony button.
SoloAmp: channel 2, input gain set at 2 O'clock, eq high, mid, low all 12 O'clock. By the way, the anti feedback on both channels set at 1 O'clock with the reverb knobs both set at 12 O'clock for both channels.
So, this is the "vocal path" components and settings.

Now, I have both feeding out via the monitor out on the back of the SoloAmp to my VoiceSolo line in. The line in knob set at 11 O'clock and the output knob set at 10 O'clock. Which in my music room gives me a "stereo effect" as the VoiceSolo is set off in front of the mic to my left and the SoloAmp is set off to my right slightly ahead of the mic. I can hear both equally well with the SoloAmp MASTER VOLUME set at 1 and a half, maybe 2!

Lastly, and sorry for the long post, my use of the feedback destroyer did not turn out like I thought it would. Instead of being a tool to "kill" whatever feedback existed in my signal chain, it has turned out to be a tool to help me set up the signal chain. My observation is that when you set the unit to automatic and allow it to deploy filter shots by the time it gets up to 6 or 8 you will be able to hear it "killing" your mix along with the feedback. Another observation about the feedback destroyer I've noticed (and Geogie8 told me this before I found out for myself) is that the input gain has to be pretty high in order for the unit to recognize the feedback and deploy a filter automatically.

Well, that's enough to ponder I suspect, if you can "get through it" I'll try just about anything you recommend, at least once! Thanks...

OK Pegleg!

I have some ideas but we'll need to take this discussion offline. I've got some serious deadlines I'm working against but I will be in touch over the next couple of days!

[tdrake]

Originally Posted by FingerPlucked

Some people like Martins. I think they sound muddy. Martin fans tend to think Taylors sound thin. I think Taylors have a clearer sound. Nobody's right or wrong, unless they don't buy the guitar that suits their taste.

Truer words were never spoken.

Given what I suspect to be the avg age of this board, I suspect as well that the majority of us suffer some sort of hearing loss, and that it occurs differently in each of us.

td

[bobbyc]

Originally Posted by tdrake

Truer words were never spoken.

Given what I suspect to be the avg age of this board, I suspect as well that the majority of us suffer some sort of hearing loss, and that it occurs differently in each of us.

td

What?... Huh?

[FingerPlucked]

Bobby, you picked up on some of the relative tone differences between these amps. The videos are useful in hearing some of the differences between the amps.

I think it's also worth noting that all three of them sounded better in person than they do in the videos. They seemed to have more life, or magic, or mojo or something than what I hear in the videos.

[bobbyc]

Originally Posted by FingerPlucked

Bobby, you picked up on some of the relative tone differences between these amps. The videos are useful in hearing some of the differences between the amps.

I think it's also worth noting that all three of them sounded better in person than they do in the videos. They seemed to have more life, or magic, or mojo or something than what I hear in the videos.

Thats a good point, because the mic is not picking the sound up exactly like our ears do. I always experiment with mic'ing stuff, and have never been able to duplicate what is actually heard by my ears.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Pegleg

Hey Joseph -
If you're volunteering to help, then I'll gladly volunteer to be the "class idiot" if that will provide an improvement!

First, let me say "medium gain" would be an improvement from where I am.

Ok, here are the components and settings..

Gibson J45 Rosewood, active pickup, but no controls on guitar.
Fishman Pro-Eq Platinum; volume set at 10 O'clock, input gain set at 3 O'clock, smooth set at 3 O'clock, notch set at 1 O'clock. The eq settings are per the instruction manual for a "stummer" (which is primarily what I am) as follows; bass is boost to + 12db, level is cut all the way down to -12db, level is about midway, freq is slightly cut, treble slightly cut, brilliance is slightly cut. My personal observation is that the eq settings have more impact on tone than on feedback control (within reason) whereas the input gain, volume and notch have more impact on feedback control.
SoloAmp:channel 1, input gain at 1 O'clock, eq high, mid, low all 12 O'clock, -10db pad depressed, reverb set on 3.
So, this is the "guitar path" components and settings.

Senn e945.
Harmony G pedal: input gain set at 1 O'clock, fx set at 1 O'clock, harmony set at 11 O'clock. I only have two of the 5 presets set up.. "1" is fx=room, harmonies set high/low. "5" is fx=echo, harmonies set high/lower. Personal observation is settings don't matter both presets will feedback when I hit the harmony button.
SoloAmp: channel 2, input gain set at 2 O'clock, eq high, mid, low all 12 O'clock. By the way, the anti feedback on both channels set at 1 O'clock with the reverb knobs both set at 12 O'clock for both channels.
So, this is the "vocal path" components and settings.

Now, I have both feeding out via the monitor out on the back of the SoloAmp to my VoiceSolo line in. The line in knob set at 11 O'clock and the output knob set at 10 O'clock. Which in my music room gives me a "stereo effect" as the VoiceSolo is set off in front of the mic to my left and the SoloAmp is set off to my right slightly ahead of the mic. I can hear both equally well with the SoloAmp MASTER VOLUME set at 1 and a half, maybe 2!

Lastly, and sorry for the long post, my use of the feedback destroyer did not turn out like I thought it would. Instead of being a tool to "kill" whatever feedback existed in my signal chain, it has turned out to be a tool to help me set up the signal chain. My observation is that when you set the unit to automatic and allow it to deploy filter shots by the time it gets up to 6 or 8 you will be able to hear it "killing" your mix along with the feedback. Another observation about the feedback destroyer I've noticed (and Geogie8 told me this before I found out for myself) is that the input gain has to be pretty high in order for the unit to recognize the feedback and deploy a filter automatically.

Well, that's enough to ponder I suspect, if you can "get through it" I'll try just about anything you recommend, at least once! Thanks...

Hi Pegleg,

Having used everything in your signal chain except the TC VoiceTone Active Monitor and the "Feedback Destroyer"--what is this thing anyway?--maybe I can help you out with your feedback problems.

First of all, what pickup do you have in your Gibson J-45? I had a J-45 Honeyburst Koa Custom with the L.R. Baggs Element Active factory-installed (this is the system with the one little Volume-wheel control in the underside perimeter of the soundhole). I would run the J-45 directly through a Fishman Aura Dreadnought Pedal, and using one of several good-sounding Aura Images, and with all EQ on the SoloAmp set FLAT, I got one of the best amplified acoustic-guitar tones ever. Please restate your Fishman Platinum EQ's Bass, Mid-range and Treble tone settings for your guitar. I had trouble understanding what you posted--did you boost or cut your Gibson J-45's Bass by 12 dB?

I didn't get any feedback when activating my Harmony G's harmony button when playing through my Fishman SoloAmp or my Mackie SRM450 speakers. I don't get any feedback either with my new TC Helicon VoiceLive 2 or my older VoiceLive. The same with my DigiTech VL-4. With everything setup with proper gain levels, when you activate the harmony button on the Harmony G pedal, you should hear the harmony come in without any increase in volume. I always set my harmony volume to be a bit less and certainly no more than the melody vocal volume.

A word about feedback fighters, whether resident onboard a guitar's preamp, pedal-based, or amp-based, although these circuits can and do work, they also alter the tone of your amplified sound and should only be used as the last choice in quelling a problem room frequency.

Also, get your system to sound good to you without any monitor turned on, and then bring up your monitor volume only loud enough so can can hear your performance and not have the monitor contribute to any feedback potential in your system's overall mix.

Thanks and I'll be looking for your reply with the additional information I requested.

Regards,

SpruceTop