BagAmp in the house!

[bobbyc]

Originally Posted by Marshall

Well

I created a YouTube channel that is titled:

Bagampsoloampdavid

You can search that in Youtube and should find all the little videos from the Bagamp Smackdown. I also had my Schertler David there.

You can judge fo yo sef.

Thanks for your efforts. I think these tests tell a lot about the tone of both units.

I personally like the SoloAmp a little better. It sounds a little fuller to me with a little more base, and the BagAmp sounds a little thinner to me.

Was the EQ set the same on both units?

[Marshall]

PS - One last comment. The last numbered video is of Paul on his new Hoffman guitar. It was not played through all the amps. But Paul was just showing off his new guitar, and I captured that for him.

[Foster]

While the BA, SA and Bose Compact are clearly vying for the same market, there are some strengths I see in some over others, just by looking at the specs (I have a Bose Compact, so I have some experience with it).

I think you have to give the mixer section to Fishman, as the EQ/reverb package, the monitor send, the phase switch, the DI output options, the tweeter attenuator... these elements would seem better fleshed out in the SA. The Bose Compact trails the three units in this regard, with no reverb and very minimal EQ.

So here, I think it will matter if a player typically uses a front-end assembly of some kind (effects, processors, preamps, etc). If I wanted to just plug and play, the SA attracts me more. But if I use my little magic box with the Boss AD-5 and the Korg Pandora, it would matter much less what on-board mixer capabilities the amp had. Since I usually use my own front-end, the spartan mixer of the Bose Compact is sufficient.

The DI implementation hasn't gotten much discussion to date, but it deserves mention. The SA lets you output each of the 2 channels separately, or mixed, and all via XLR. The BA and the Compact only give you 1/4" plug output of the both channels as mixed. For players who want an onstage amp that interfaces nicely with large, pro-spec PA systems, especially with the possibility of DI-ing the channels out separately... again, advantage SA.

I imagine the frequency response debate will go to the Bose Compact, as it already has the woofer. On the other hand, I suspect the mid-range response may be better on either the BA or SA, just by virtue of the larger speaker array. But it's pure speculation on my part, I admit. I know the low end on my Compact is very impressive for the size of the unit, and if I use my guitar synth, I'd want the woofer of the Bose.

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Pegleg

Yeah, I would have thought that too, until I purchased a SoloAmp and attempted to use it as both a monitor/main with a Harmony G pedal. It's been a "journey" and as a result I think it safe to say using the SoloAmp as both a monitor and main ain't going to happen if you intend to employ any appreciable "headroom" the SoloAmp has to offer. I gave up and purchased both a VoiceSolo personal monitor and a feedback destroyer (my thanks to Geokie8 once again for his help in it's proper use). Even with these additions, it's a challenge to over come the "hot signal" the Harmony G deploys when the harmony function is used. Keep in mind, I'm not talking about making the audience's ear drums bleed, I just want to be heard over normal conversation and be the dominant sound in the venue. So, I can "relate" to Spruce Top's comment in his earlier post (the one before the OM7 one) and based on my experience, it's correct.

Pegleg I wish I could help here.

I'm an audio engineer by trade and I've played in "loud" bands since the dawn of history. As I've mentioned here several times before my duo partner and I both use SoloAmps for our duo. We play loud..there is just no two ways about it. There are three live mics, two internal in guitars and one vocal. The SoloAmps are more in back of us than in front and where it does take 10 or 15 minutes to get the SoloAmps in a spot that works best it's by NO MEANS an impossible task.

I feel your pain cause you've been down this road for a while and I totally believe you when you say you struggle but "something" is just not right "somewhere" in your rig.

Live mics are......well....live mics.....but if your looking for medium gain before feedback you should be able to (with relative ease) do that with the SoloAmp nearly dead in back of you.

[BuleriaChk]

The SA also has send/return for each channel...

Originally Posted by Foster

I think you have to give the mixer section to Fishman, as the EQ/reverb package, the monitor send, the phase switch, the DI output options, the tweeter attenuator... these elements would seem better fleshed out in the SA. The Bose Compact trails the three units in this regard, with no reverb and very minimal EQ.

[DavidE]

Originally Posted by Marshall

This was just a lark we were on. None of us expected it to be to be a definitive study. Just fun.

Sorry to waste you precious time.

PS - Youtube is mixing up the files. If you listen to them in numbered order (01, 02, 03, etc), you'll hear the same thing played by the same person on the same instrument through each amp in order.

Wow, I really don't think that was called for. I just posted my observations, stated why I didn't think I could draw any conclusions and thanked everyone for their efforts.

[BoB/335]

Originally Posted by DavidE

Wow, I really don't think that was called for. I just posted my observations, stated why I didn't think I could draw any conclusions and thanked everyone for their efforts.

I saw that and have to agree with David!

[Pegleg]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

Pegleg I wish I could help here.

I'm an audio engineer by trade and I've played in "loud" bands since the dawn of history. As I've mentioned here several times before my duo partner and I both use SoloAmps for our duo. We play loud..there is just no two ways about it. There are three live mics, two internal in guitars and one vocal. The SoloAmps are more in back of us than in front and where it does take 10 or 15 minutes to get the SoloAmps in a spot that works best it's by NO MEANS an impossible task.

I feel your pain cause you've been down this road for a while and I totally believe you when you say you struggle but "something" is just not right "somewhere" in your rig.

Live mics are......well....live mics.....but if your looking for medium gain before feedback you should be able to (with relative ease) do that with the SoloAmp nearly dead in back of you.

Hey Joseph -
If you're volunteering to help, then I'll gladly volunteer to be the "class idiot" if that will provide an improvement!

First, let me say "medium gain" would be an improvement from where I am.

Ok, here are the components and settings..

Gibson J45 Rosewood, active pickup, but no controls on guitar.
Fishman Pro-Eq Platinum; volume set at 10 O'clock, input gain set at 3 O'clock, smooth set at 3 O'clock, notch set at 1 O'clock. The eq settings are per the instruction manual for a "stummer" (which is primarily what I am) as follows; bass is boost to + 12db, level is cut all the way down to -12db, level is about midway, freq is slightly cut, treble slightly cut, brilliance is slightly cut. My personal observation is that the eq settings have more impact on tone than on feedback control (within reason) whereas the input gain, volume and notch have more impact on feedback control.
SoloAmp:channel 1, input gain at 1 O'clock, eq high, mid, low all 12 O'clock, -10db pad depressed, reverb set on 3.
So, this is the "guitar path" components and settings.

Senn e945.
Harmony G pedal: input gain set at 1 O'clock, fx set at 1 O'clock, harmony set at 11 O'clock. I only have two of the 5 presets set up.. "1" is fx=room, harmonies set high/low. "5" is fx=echo, harmonies set high/lower. Personal observation is settings don't matter both presets will feedback when I hit the harmony button.
SoloAmp: channel 2, input gain set at 2 O'clock, eq high, mid, low all 12 O'clock. By the way, the anti feedback on both channels set at 1 O'clock with the reverb knobs both set at 12 O'clock for both channels.
So, this is the "vocal path" components and settings.

Now, I have both feeding out via the monitor out on the back of the SoloAmp to my VoiceSolo line in. The line in knob set at 11 O'clock and the output knob set at 10 O'clock. Which in my music room gives me a "stereo effect" as the VoiceSolo is set off in front of the mic to my left and the SoloAmp is set off to my right slightly ahead of the mic. I can hear both equally well with the SoloAmp MASTER VOLUME set at 1 and a half, maybe 2!

Lastly, and sorry for the long post, my use of the feedback destroyer did not turn out like I thought it would. Instead of being a tool to "kill" whatever feedback existed in my signal chain, it has turned out to be a tool to help me set up the signal chain. My observation is that when you set the unit to automatic and allow it to deploy filter shots by the time it gets up to 6 or 8 you will be able to hear it "killing" your mix along with the feedback. Another observation about the feedback destroyer I've noticed (and Geogie8 told me this before I found out for myself) is that the input gain has to be pretty high in order for the unit to recognize the feedback and deploy a filter automatically.

Well, that's enough to ponder I suspect, if you can "get through it" I'll try just about anything you recommend, at least once! Thanks...

[lpa53]

I sure hope we can still have some fun here. I know I did when experimenting on Saturday with Jim and Marshall. I think the upshot for me is that, with more first-hand reviews coming out, with and without accompanying audio, and even without "scientific" variable controls, it looks like Jack has indeed produced a viable unit that some testers do like (subjectively perhaps) and would buy. That in iself is a pleasant outcome for the Bagamp adventure Ive been following this last year. I'll continue to be interested in how the Bagamp accessories, the Mixer and Sub, play out in 2010.

If I had the dough, I'd love to play around even more with the BA and all of the Bose products, too, which I've only heard live at a Phil Keaggy concert (and he can make anything sound good). I have the Soloamp now and will most likely keep it. If Santa decided to get me a Bagamp, at least I know now that I certainly wouldn't reject is as some K-tel or Ronco gadget.

[DavidE]

Originally Posted by BoB/335

I saw that and have to agree with David!

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to make a big deal of it. It's not. I was just a bit surprised.

[jennconducts]

Originally Posted by FingerPlucked

Paul, I think I have most of the issues covered, but we need a bigger room. Do you think you can get access to one?

I have two theaters, two large rehearsal rooms, and a SoloAmp. If there are people with a BA or a Bose on the central CA coast, I'm game! ;-)

Jenn

[lpa53]

Originally Posted by jennconducts

I have two theaters, two large rehearsal rooms, and a SoloAmp. If there are people with a BA or a Bose on the central CA coast, I'm game! ;-)

Jenn

Sounds like an excuse for a fun vacation for someone in the cold midwest!

[Marshall]

Well. I probably over reacted. I guess I just got done putting in several hours this weekend trying to give people something to help decide for themselves, and felt like the whole motive was being questioned. I didn't even play anything.

Whatever. I guess I'll apologize and move on.

I'm done with this discussion.

How about them Bears ?

[BuleriaChk]

Where on the central coast? I'm in Santa Barbara but if it gets below 70F (wind-chill factor), I become dysfunctional..... and I only have a SoloAmp. Can I come anyway?... )

Originally Posted by jennconducts

I have two theaters, two large rehearsal rooms, and a SoloAmp. If there are people with a BA or a Bose on the central CA coast, I'm game! ;-)

Jenn

[jennconducts]

Originally Posted by BuleriaChk

Where on the central coast? I'm in Santa Barbara but if it gets below 70F (wind-chill factor), I become dysfunctional..... and I only have a SoloAmp. Can I come anyway?... )

Ha! I'm in San Luis Obispo. Let's find those amps!

Jenn