How Many Mistakes Do You Find Acceptable?

[Wasper]

Originally Posted by Tele1111

My goal when recording is always a perfect take. Like you, I don't like to splice takes. That can create more pressure though, and that pressure can actually create mistakes. If the mistakes occur in the same sections of the songs you are trying to record, the obvious solution is to work on those sections.

Mark

This resonates with me. I get an almost "stage-fright" when recording for some reason. I can play the piece pretty much just fine, multiple times in a row. But, as soon as I hit record it is a train wreck. Try as I might, I just can't get a clean recording when that little red light is on.

I think I'll have to pay someone to be a ninja recorder, to catch me when I'm oblivious. They can creep in all stealth like and descend from the ceiling like Tom Cruise in mission impossible and record me without knowing.. lol

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Wasper

This resonates with me. I get an almost "stage-fright" when recording for some reason. I can play the piece pretty much just fine, multiple times in a row. But, as soon as I hit record it is a train wreck. Try as I might, I just can't get a clean recording when that little red light is on.

I think I'll have to pay someone to be a ninja recorder, to catch me when I'm oblivious. They can creep in all stealth like and descend from the ceiling like Tom Cruise in mission impossible and record me without knowing.. lol

This is actually fairly common especially when A ( new to recording, first year or two ) and B doubly so when attempting to do a single take. One thing to try is doing the recording the same as practice, in other words, record multiple takes In a row do not stop in between. Just decide to do say 3 takes with out stoping no matter If you make a mistake dont stop and go back just keep playing and perhaps the second or third will be a keeper. Or just let go of notion that it has to be one non comped take.

[SeamusORiley]

Originally Posted by Wasper

This resonates with me. I get an almost "stage-fright" when recording for some reason. I can play the piece pretty much just fine, multiple times in a row. But, as soon as I hit record it is a train wreck. Try as I might, I just can't get a clean recording when that little red light is on.

I think I'll have to pay someone to be a ninja recorder, to catch me when I'm oblivious. They can creep in all stealth like and descend from the ceiling like Tom Cruise in mission impossible and record me without knowing.. lol

As soon as I hit "record" I can feel my heart rate elevate and my mouth go dry. I concentrate almost too much on a small detail (like alternate thumb) and make a mistake. I have played "My Creole Belle" a zillion times but put on the recorder and...as you said, "train wreck."

[j3ffr0]

Back in the day, I used to be a perfectionist. Before digital recording, I have erased (and then almost erased) some of my best work, and recorded over it with some more sterile, less mistake ridden, takes. My rule is that I have no rule. The whole entire song can be a mistake, and if it sounds good it's fine with me.

I make mistakes all the time when I play, so do most other players. It's cool. I don't like stuff that sounds too polished anyway.

[Taylor-Taki]

IMO you will never be fully happy with your own recordings! Your always going to hear mistakes.

I know if I try and re-do a track I will eliminate the the mistakes from the previous take only to make new mistakes - I realize that this topic is WELL old but if you ever find the correct answer PM me it

I'm older, and I make a lot of mistakes. I never seem to play perfectly anymore (if I ever did). So, I fooled around with this problem a bunch and arrived a method very similar to Doug Young's. The only difference is that I use Reaper, which makes this sort of thing pretty simple. Click track, three takes, cross-fade mistakes, done. One trick that hasn't been mentioned yet is one used by some banjo pickers -- record at slower-than-performance speed and then digitally increase the tempo for the final 'print'. You make fewer mistakes that way.

[Ivan Lee]

On any given day one can only play as well as one can play. If the goal of the recording is to capture who you are as a musician right now (as if there was some other "time") then to me... the goal shifts to getting as good a performance as possible - musicality, feel, emotion, execution are the key points - in the order listed. A simple missed note or sequence can easily be edited together as many have stated and I have no issue with that as long as the goal above is kept intact. For me ~ 3 to 4 consecutive takes either accomplishes this or I try the tune another day.

On a solo guitar or guitar and voice piece there is no place to hide. I used to use a click track and make the notes flawless (via many takes and editing). Nowadays I practice with a metronome often but rarely record solo pieces with one.

My goals in recording are creative expression and documentation. When an artist paints a picture there is proof they did something. A musical performance is ephemeral. A recorded output is a way to create output for musical activity -- On my wall I have two sayings....

1) Done better than perfect
2) Look what "fill in the name" does with so much less

And finally to answer the OP... How many mistakes do you find acceptable?
A: As few as I can do today

[ombudsman]

I've gone full circle on this, from correcting every little thing to correcting very little and doing very few takes (often 1 after a short test recording to make sure the sound is good).

Perfection is a concept that is problematic and often corrosive. I think you need to be careful about letting it into your life as a benchmark, bearing in mind that it doesn't objectively exist, it is a moving target that changes with your mood. Human beings have the tendency to focus on negatives out of all proportion, for evolutionary reasons that make sense when you need to survive but aren't so good when you enjoy a pretty safe and secure modern life and your biggest challenge of the day is recording a new song.

I am not anti craft or anti work in the way many musicians are, but I do think that there is a continuum that ranges from variations and style that are critical to music, to looseness, to mistakes. When musicians start fixing mistakes, the tendency is to lose perspective on where to draw the line between mistakes and musically appealing looseness, and go too far.

Also mistakes can be an important tool used to manipulate the audience's perception of the values behind the music, the person making it, and how "authentic" and raw the music is. This is all about perceptions, not reality, and there is a lot of willful deception and show biz attitude that goes into crafting these appearances, including from some of the musicians whose public image is all about seeming crude, unschooled, or non intellectual.

By leaving in some obvious mistakes or rawness, you can get a pass for the whole piece of music as being some sort of honest or raw creation, which appeals to preconceived notions in many listeners but is not necessarily the reality of how the music was made. It allows you to create contrast against the most sophisticated elements, and serves as a proactive defense against being seen as overly crafted, pretentious, or otherwise threatening to the narcissism of the audience. Musicians create fake (non middle class) personas and play up their drug and alcohol problems and any criminal record they may have for the same reasons.

You've got to have some obvious flaws somewhere and make sure to flaunt them, because nobody likes straight up high achievement and talent in other people without this stuff to balance it out. That's why you almost never see a protagonist in a movie who is rich, successful, and good looking without some sort of really humbling or funny character flaw. We can't look up to other people unless we can first look down on them.

[Doug Young]

Good thoughts there, om. There's for sure a slippery slope there. It can help to have someone else to work with, acting as a "producer" to help keep some perspective, even if it's just playing the track for trusted friend.

And there's always a tradeoff in how much "perfection" one wants. We had our house remodeled a while back, lots of stone and natural materials, and our contractor kept telling us "the beauty is in the imperfections". They seemed to bring that up every time they brought in a particularly hideous piece of stone :-) But they had a point, of course, and during that process, I learned to pick out the difference between manufactured cookie-cutter perfection in tile, fake wood flooring, etc, and better appreciate the true randomness of natural elements, and indeed some of the "character" spots are the ones I like the most now that it's all done.

On the other hand, with a musical performance, the idea that one can edit in perfection is pretty unlikely. You can usually hear an immediate difference between a good guitarist who makes a mistake and a poor guitarist who plays a piece "correctly", but with bad tone, bad feel, etc. No amount of editing is going to make a beginner sound like Tommy Emannuel, and if Tommy makes a small clam among the thousands of notes he's playing, I'd not think that fixing it would take any humanity away from an otherwise stunning performance.

All a matter of balance and artistic decisions.

[Fichtezc]

That house remodeling analogy is really good, Doug. Thanks for sharing that.

[ombudsman]

Thanks Doug.

What you're describing about the beauty in the natural materials is a lot like wabi sabi, which is more or less traditional Japanese aesthetics. Getting a feel for that is important IMO because it gives perspective on the Western aesthetics that we have been exposed to all our lives (not that we haven't also been exposed to our own homegrown version of wabi sabi or picked up on the same values in whatever way).

Comparing the two, I would say it's obvious which one is more likely to lead one to happiness and fulfillment, but they're both part of culture and I think they're all in the toolbox. Sometimes I want to hit a specific target and have high standards in doing so, and that can feel really good and engaging (as long as I eventually get there !). Other times I find that I get more out of being open to what is there, just as it is, and remembering that reality cannot be trapped in or defined or entirely described by mental constructs.

[Bords]

Perfect is the enemy of good

Not sure if I got the exact quote but it's on point.

[williejohnson]

If I am doing a CD, for sale to the public, I want zero mistakes in what I intended to do.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by ombudsman

....

By leaving in some obvious mistakes or rawness, you can get a pass for the whole piece of music as being some sort of honest or raw creation, which appeals to preconceived notions in many listeners but is not necessarily the reality of how the music was made. It allows you to create contrast against the most sophisticated elements, and serves as a proactive defense against being seen as overly crafted, pretentious, or otherwise threatening to the narcissism of the audience. Musicians create fake (non middle class) personas and play up their drug and alcohol problems and any criminal record they may have for the same reasons.

You've got to have some obvious flaws somewhere and make sure to flaunt them, because nobody likes straight up high achievement and talent in other people without this stuff to balance it out. That's why you almost never see a protagonist in a movie who is rich, successful, and good looking without some sort of really humbling or funny character flaw. We can't look up to other people unless we can first look down on them.

sometimes i spend hours editing in minor flaws, breath noise and ringing strings. but it's subtle, and keeps me grounded. it's george clooney on a bad hair day that i'm after. one really good "flub" for the people and i feel my work is done, and the honesty and sincerity can shine through, without worrying that my playing good looks will overshadow the emotion.

it's a somewhat novel approach.

[KenW]

I have my iPod Touch set up with OSC to remote control Reaper, so I do however many takes necessary, simply stopping and starting on the same track for each take. I have Reaper set up where it creates a break in the track where I stopped one take and started another. I quickly learned not to budge until I had as many takes as I thought necessary.

My original intention was to comp together the best sections of each take. What has actually taken place in actual practice is that one of the takes will stand out as superior to the others, and I will slice out small sections from other takes for repairs as needed.

My own experience is that the takes will progressively get better, and then they will start to get worse, and that is when I need to stop and either accept what I have or try again on another day. I do not obsess over every single squeak or rattle. Often I have to pause and wait for the cats to get their orneriness out of their system.