Pinless bridge troubles X30

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by new2guitar_eh

Separate question...would such a part work on a non-pinless bridge too?

Yes, it would work but a metal strip with holes drilled in it would be simpler and quicker as suggested in my above post.

[byudzai]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Yes, it would work but a metal strip with holes drilled in it would be simpler and quicker as suggested in my above post.

The reason for the complexity is to let you insert them from the top without fishing them through inside the guitar, which is difficult on the X30.

Another advantage to the gizmo is it’ll hold the ball ends a little deeper, helping avoid these little pricklers when strumming.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by byudzai

The reason for the complexity is to let you insert them from the top without fishing them through inside the guitar, which is difficult on the X30.

Another advantage to the gizmo is it’ll hold the ball ends a little deeper, helping avoid these little pricklers when strumming.

Thanks for the clarification on your design and I sincerely hope your design works well and you can impart it to Alistair for his future builds.

[byudzai]

Originally Posted by jwellsy

The gap between the uprights are currently the same for all strings. That measurement will be critical to accommodating various string diameters while excluding the eyes. The uprights may be a little stronger if those gaps were graduated.

I got thinking about this question more and looked up string tensions for the 13/56s I used. Turns out I'm only half right about the string tensions being less at the thin strings. Interesting right? Most of the tension is in the middle.

The underbridge device wouldn't feel that full weight, with the string making turns over the saddle and the edge of the pin holes, but it'll still get a lot of it. I guess that's what prototypes are for! I did beef up the struts a little, per your suggestion. Ordered one up in aluminum so we'll see how it works.

[headCASE]

I would love to test this. The bridge pins are set a bit close to my x20's bridge, so the slight extension from below would help the wraps on the strings I like to use not end up resting on my bridge.

[byudzai]

Originally Posted by headCASE

I would love to test this. The bridge pins are set a bit close to my x20's bridge, so the slight extension from below would help the wraps on the strings I like to use not end up resting on my bridge.

With any luck the latest version will work as hoped. I went through 3 or 4 different designs a year or two ago and tried them out with my FDM desktop printer, so I'm not coming in completely cold on this design. Fingers crossed! If it makes string changes easy and secure, provides a firm string support for crisp tuning, and buries the strings further for the above reasons it'll be a win.

[byudzai]

It occurs to me that the pinless bridge holes are drilled at an angle and this gizmo may only work for standard bridge pin holes. I wonder if I just sawed grooves in a piece of thin aluminum sheet metal to reinforce beneath the bridge if that would work fine, and pull the strings down a bit. Probably.

[ac]

Or maybe something like this??

http://www.quickstringinc.com/index.htm

http://www.quickstringinc.com/QSAB-6...structions.pdf

[BT55]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Although I love your elegant design and admire your desire to make and apply it to this problem, why not just use a thin copper or brass or aluminum strip or other thin material strip (maybe of a composite in keeping with the carbon-fiber/composite theme of your Emerald)

There have been numerous topics on the acoustic forum about the Mitchell Platemate which is what you are describing. The majority of responses are that it changes the tone of the guitar. Granted that is on a wood guitar but I would expect the same result with a CF guitar.

[byudzai]

If anyone else is having trouble with that wire twist prickling their palm on the pinless bridge, as shown above, and wants to try out a prototype nylon gizmo that'll seat the strings both more deeply and firmly, you're welcome to try one of these. I just got the earlier gizmo, for standard bridges, and the material seems plenty sturdy. Worked well on my Sable.

Nothing elegant about this but it should work. Definitely a prototype so no guarantees (yet). Again this is for the Emerald pinless bridge, not the standard bridge. Weighs about 5 grams in nylon, less than 6 bridge pins. Here's the link: http://shpws.me/R6L4

Should come out to $13.37 or so with shipping. No added profit on my end.

[jwellsy]

I like this design. What fill % do you use?

[byudzai]

Originally Posted by jwellsy

I like this design. What fill % do you use?

Ahhhh the magic of SLS! Check it out on youtube, selective laser sintering -- parts are built by fusing thin layers of powdered material (nylon, steel, aluminum, etc etc) into parts. So everything comes out uniform and solid all the way through. There is a micro-porosity to them but not visible to the eye.

You CAN buy one but they're super expensive and the post-processing is impractical for home use. But they make FDM and SLA desktop printers look like tinker toys by comparison.

Check this video out.

[chistrummer]

Originally Posted by byudzai

This guitar has a dedicated pinless bridge. I think one of the slots just has bad geometry for some reason.



That's the hope! If it works I'll make a few different sizes for different pin hole spacings and put them on Shapeways in case anyone else wants one.

Are you trying to fix a design flaw or did you damage something? From Methos's picture it looks like the pins bump against carbon fiber.

[byudzai]

Originally Posted by chistrummer

Are you trying to fix a design flaw or did you damage something? From Methos's picture it looks like the pins bump against carbon fiber.

I don't think I damaged anything -- can't say for sure. My suspicion is that unfused carbon fiber, as lies beneath the bridge, is too soft and slippery to get a reliable hold on the string heads, but mine may just be a fluke. Soft and slippery seems like it should hold a string head under tension just fine. Not sure what's going on exactly. I wrote Alistair and said I was going to try an under-bridge support gizmo and he said let him know how that goes.

[byudzai]

Update on this project. So far so good. The nylon insert was easy to use, seems to have stable tuning so far, and keeps the sharp coil down below the surface of the bridge.

So far I've just used string tension to align the insert, and the second time I let it sit at a bit of an angle, so the skinny string heads didn't sit as centered. User error to be mindful of.