Paying royalties

[Muffinhead]

I am not a public performer so I never really had to think about this, but when you play copyrighted material at a paid gig, how are the royalties paid to the original artist? Do you pay a yearly fee or something like that?

Do you still have to pay royalties if you do a free gig like at a retirement home or school?

Please don't say "play original music" because that obviously will not answer my question.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Muffinhead

I am not a public performer so I never really had to think about this, but when you play copyrighted material at a paid gig, how are the royalties paid to the original artist? Do you pay a yearly fee or something like that?

Do you still have to pay royalties if you do a free gig like at a retirement home or school?

Please don't say "play original music" because that obviously will not answer my question.

hi M-h
You can perform anything you want on gigs and not pay copyright fees. The license responsibility falls on the venue not the artist.

If you record, or publish an arrangement, etc…that's another matter all together. Then the Harry Fox agency will be glad to become your friend…

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Muffinhead

I am not a public performer so I never really had to think about this, but when you play copyrighted material at a paid gig, how are the royalties paid to the original artist? Do you pay a yearly fee or something like that?

If that were true, I'd owe Chuck Berry £1000s....

[sam.spoons]

It is also the venue's responsibility to hold the appropriate PRS license in the UK. You may be asked to fill in a return (list of songs you perform). A friend of mine used to say he earned more from royalties on his original songs than from the pub's fee for playing (I suspect he was employing a little artistic licence there mind you)

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by sam.spoons

It is also the venue's responsibility to hold the appropriate PRS license in the UK. You may be asked to fill in a return (list of songs you perform).

Maybe. In nearly 50 years of playing gigs in the UK (various pub, club venues, function gigs etc) no band I've been has ever been asked to do that.

[DupleMeter]

in the US most venues have to purchase an "entertainment license" from the various PROs that covers any music played in them for the year. These are blanket fees and don't require reporting of individual titles.

If you do play originals at any venue you should be reporting that to your PRO and they will collect the respective royalties for songwriter & publisher(s) and pay them out accordingly.

Now, this all doesn't apply for houses of worship. That's all handled differently because there a worship service is not considered a performance (from a royalties standpoint) but there is the need to cover other aspects (like distribution of copyrighted material to the band members, et al). That's typically handled by CCLI, though there are other options.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

in the US most venues have to purchase an "entertainment license" from the various PROs that covers any music played in them for the year. These are blanket fees and don't require reporting of individual titles.

Same in the UK, as I understand it.

[jasperguitar]

this is very interesting info

so, the guitar player plays songs;; the venue must do the license thing.

well, how does the license organization know who to give the money to ?

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by jasperguitar

this is very interesting info

so, the guitar player plays songs;; the venue must do the license thing.

well, how does the license organization know who to give the money to ?

Hi jg…
In the USA the action of forcing establishments to purchase the license is lawyer driven, and the reality is that not much money ever gets to the artists.

But it does support the lawyers nicely.

Most local establishments in our city who were having live artists play, received the letter to license or cease and desist, and decided to eliminate live music from their establishments.

I've lived in this town for 40 years and have seen the cycle of lawyer driven elimination of live players three times now. It's cheaper for them to just not pay the fees and go to no music or a juke box.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by jasperguitar

this is very interesting info

so, the guitar player plays songs;; the venue must do the license thing.

well, how does the license organization know who to give the money to ?

they just give it to taylor swift and ed sheeran i think.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

[size=2]Hi jg…
In the USA the action of forcing establishments to purchase the license is lawyer driven, and the reality is that not much money ever gets to the artists.

But it does support the lawyers nicely.

That's probably also the case in the UK.
There's a cute little animation here which tells your precisely nothing about what it purports to tell you:
http://www.prsformusic.com/users/bus...icencefee.aspx

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Most local establishments in our city who were having live artists play, received the letter to license or cease and desist, and decided to eliminate live music from their establishments.

Again, much like the UK. Licence fees were increased to a point where many venues decided it was no longer worth their while.
(AFAIK, there used to be an exclusion clause which meant the venue didn't need a license if it only featured solo acts or duos. But now duos can be as loud as a band, they closed that loophole.)

The other thing venues have to fight against is new housing developments being built close by, and then those new residents complaining about the noise. (Like, so why move there in the first place?)
A very famous London jazz venue nearly had to close because of that - instead they moved to a different (smaller) room and installed soundproofing. With the result the old ambience was destroyed and fewer people go.

In general, the authorities here regard live music is basically a nuisance. There's always pressures for urban redevelopment (housing, shops or offices), and if a place features live music, that seems to be a reason to target it for demolition or change of use, rather than any attempt to preserve it for social reasons. Musicians are noise-makers, and music fans are troublemakers! Society would be so much better if people just shopped quietly and went home....
Busking? Without a licence, forget it.

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by jasperguitar

this is very interesting info

so, the guitar player plays songs;; the venue must do the license thing.

well, how does the license organization know who to give the money to ?

Sadly it get's distributed to the artists with the best legal representation.

And yes, many establishments are getting threatening letters from the PROs saying they need to pay for the license or stop having music. And it's cheaper for them to stop having music...so guess what they do?

[Toby Walker]

Originally Posted by sam.spoons

It is also the venue's responsibility to hold the appropriate PRS license in the UK. You may be asked to fill in a return (list of songs you perform). A friend of mine used to say he earned more from royalties on his original songs than from the pub's fee for playing (I suspect he was employing a little artistic licence there mind you)

I've toured the U.K. for over 12 years and yes, there have been times when I've been asked to fill out a list of the songs I'll be performing. The venues that do that however are not your usual pubs but rather theaters, local community music groups and the Art Centres. I can say with 100% accuracy that I was never, ever paid royalties from that system.

The royalties that I currently collect are from two sources: BMI and Sound Exchange. The latter, SE, pays me each month for each time my music is played on SiriusXM radio. BMI is a tad more mysterious. Twice a year I get two checks from them (as a publisher and composer) how they arrive at their figures is anybody's guess.

The bottom line is that in the 10 various countries, including the USA, I've never had to pay to play cover songs. So far that responsibility falls to the venue or organization that is hosting the event.