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Old 07-21-2017, 01:09 PM
JWJ915 JWJ915 is offline
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Question Fire Eye Red Eye and Taylor ES2

I know that the Red Eye supposedly works well with passive AND active electronics, but I'm wondering if anyone has any experience using the Red Eye with an active system. From most things that I've read, it seems that Red Eye users are playing with passive electronics.

If the Red Eye is not the preamp to use, can someone recommend a preamp/DI that pairs nicely with the ES2 system?

Side note: for those of you wondering why I'd be wanting an external preamp in combination with the ES2, well here's why. I've played the guitar three times in a live setting, on three different mixers: an A&H QU16, a Mackenzie ProFX, and a Yamaha something-or-other. On all three mixers I had to have the gain CRANKED to have much sound coming through the FOH and monitors. And quite frankly, it sounded terrible. I thought I was going to have to return the guitar. However, upon taking it back to the shop I purchased it from and A/B'ing with other guitars that have the ES2 system, we found this to be the common theme among them; low output. We then tried a Baggs PADI; problem solved. I have an Empress ParaEQ on my board, so I do not need the EQ options provided on the PADI. So I'm looking for basic preamp/DI recommendations. Thanks!
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Old 07-21-2017, 02:31 PM
xtremekustomz xtremekustomz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWJ915 View Post
I know that the Red Eye supposedly works well with passive AND active electronics, but I'm wondering if anyone has any experience using the Red Eye with an active system. From most things that I've read, it seems that Red Eye users are playing with passive electronics.

If the Red Eye is not the preamp to use, can someone recommend a preamp/DI that pairs nicely with the ES2 system?

Side note: for those of you wondering why I'd be wanting an external preamp in combination with the ES2, well here's why. I've played the guitar three times in a live setting, on three different mixers: an A&H QU16, a Mackenzie ProFX, and a Yamaha something-or-other. On all three mixers I had to have the gain CRANKED to have much sound coming through the FOH and monitors. And quite frankly, it sounded terrible. I thought I was going to have to return the guitar. However, upon taking it back to the shop I purchased it from and A/B'ing with other guitars that have the ES2 system, we found this to be the common theme among them; low output. We then tried a Baggs PADI; problem solved. I have an Empress ParaEQ on my board, so I do not need the EQ options provided on the PADI. So I'm looking for basic preamp/DI recommendations. Thanks!
The redeye works fine with an es2. I have one. I use a pedaltrain for power so I drilled and installed a 9 volt power supply jack on the end so I don't have to change out a battery.
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Old 07-21-2017, 02:40 PM
JWJ915 JWJ915 is offline
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Thanks for the response.

Last edited by Kerbie; 07-25-2017 at 03:02 AM. Reason: Edited
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Old 07-21-2017, 03:32 PM
Vancebo Vancebo is offline
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Occasionally I think I am going to need aditional EQ so I use my Venue or PADI. Then sometimes I might have time to experiment so I just plug in the Red Eye instead. The Red Eye is all I really need. My Dazzo pickup itself gets me so close that I can get what I need in the places and situations I need. I have two Red Eyes.
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Last edited by Kerbie; 07-25-2017 at 03:02 AM. Reason: Edited
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Old 07-23-2017, 11:49 PM
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I demo'd the Red Eye and really love the quality of sound. But IMO, it DOES need a power inlet so I can leave it connected and powered from my pedal board.

I tried it with a Taylor/ES2 and ultimately did not feel the Red Eye was needed. I wound up with a Fishman Platinum Pro EQ on my board for a few reasons for greater EQ shaping for problem rooms.
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Old 07-24-2017, 08:05 AM
dcopper dcopper is offline
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The RedEye will take active electronics with no problem. I use my Redeye twin to mix a K&K pm and a Baggs M80 active and the gains work great independently. There would be no problem with a RedEye and what you intend.
I haves 2 of them but like the post above!
Usually they show up in the gear section.
Bought mine both from John at Shoreline Music - can't go wrong there.
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Last edited by Kerbie; 07-25-2017 at 03:03 AM. Reason: Edited
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Old 07-24-2017, 08:08 AM
TwinandTwang TwinandTwang is offline
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The Red Eye works on phantom power and has an effects loop so I can't see why a power outlet is necessary.
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Old 07-24-2017, 08:39 AM
Cochese Cochese is offline
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The Red Eye will be a waste of money. The ES2 has more than enough output to work directly to a mixer. I just ran mine into my little Mackie 1202 vlz with the guitar's volume at the center detent and by adjusting the input trim on the mixer it was quite easy to achieve unity gain with room to spare.

Mixers are designed for mic levels which are lower output than the ES2 system. It sounds like the mixers are not configured properly.
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Old 07-24-2017, 02:32 PM
JWJ915 JWJ915 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese View Post
The Red Eye will be a waste of money. The ES2 has more than enough output to work directly to a mixer. I just ran mine into my little Mackie 1202 vlz with the guitar's volume at the center detent and by adjusting the input trim on the mixer it was quite easy to achieve unity gain with room to spare.

Mixers are designed for mic levels which are lower output than the ES2 system. It sounds like the mixers are not configured properly.
Trust me - the mixers were all configured properly. And I'm no sound expert, but the sound guy that works at the music shop is, and he had the same problem I had. We tested two other guitars with the ES2 system. So unless all three of those guitars had defective electronics... We then plugged the guitars into a Baggs PADI and it made a world of difference. Can you explain why this might be? I'm honestly not sure, and like you said, I don't want to waste a couple hundred bucks, but I don't know what else to do. But trust me when I say the guitar output was not what I would expect from any active system.
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Old 07-24-2017, 04:32 PM
Cochese Cochese is offline
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The sound guy that works at what music shop? I used to work for a music store would that make me an expert too?

Mixers are designed to to work with a multitude of sources but first and foremost microphones. Microphones can be very low level so the mixer needs gain to make them work. The A&H QU16 mixer has 60dB of gain which is standard.That is more than enough gain to work with that guitar. On the mixer I used the gain is only 45dB on the line channel and I still had gain to spare.

Where and how is he plugging you into the mixer? To a mic channel, line channel etc? Anything between the guitar and mixer? At worst an inexpensive $25 DI would allow you to connect directly to a mic channel. He or she should =know that but I doubt it's necessary.

here are some of the specs for that mixer"
XLR Mic/Line Inputs 1‐16
Balanced, 48V phantom power
Mic/Line Preamp
Fully recallable
Input Sensitivity
‐60 to +5dBu
Analogue Gain
‐5 to +60dB, 1dB steps
Maximum Input Level
+19dBu
Input Impedance
>5kΩ
TRS jack Line inputs 1‐16
Balanced
Input Sensitivity
‐50 to +20dBu
Analogue Gain
‐10 to +60dB, 1dB steps
Maximum Input Level
+29dBu
Input Impedance
>10kΩ
Stereo ST1, ST2 Line Inputs
Balanced, 1/4" TRS jack
Mono capability
L normals through R for Mono input
Input Sensitivity
Nominal +4dBu
Trim
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Old 07-24-2017, 05:30 PM
Nama Ensou Nama Ensou is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese View Post
The sound guy that works at what music shop? I used to work for a music store would that make me an expert too?
Absolutely not. Too many idiots at music stores who think that it makes them an expert though.

On the other hand, it doesn't mean you're not either.

Sounds like the Red Eye is liked by many people, quite of few of them with reasonably high credentials, and then there are others who don't. I like reading the views on both sides of any piece of equipment I'm considering, so your points are a welcome read as well.
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Old 07-24-2017, 09:28 PM
Cochese Cochese is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nama Ensou View Post
Absolutely not. Too many idiots at music stores who think that it makes them an expert though.

On the other hand, it doesn't mean you're not either.

Sounds like the Red Eye is liked by many people, quite of few of them with reasonably high credentials, and then there are others who don't. I like reading the views on both sides of any piece of equipment I'm considering, so your points are a welcome read as well.
My comment on the Red Eye has nothing to do with whether or not the unit is a good preamp. It's unnecessary for the OP's purpose. The Taylor has a built in low impedance preamp that should easily work with any mixer. Buying any preamp simply to increase the level into a mixer is a wasted step.



It sounds like something is either not configured properly or maybe something else is going on.
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Old 07-24-2017, 09:44 PM
JWJ915 JWJ915 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese View Post
The sound guy that works at what music shop? I used to work for a music store would that make me an expert too?

Mixers are designed to to work with a multitude of sources but first and foremost microphones. Microphones can be very low level so the mixer needs gain to make them work. The A&H QU16 mixer has 60dB of gain which is standard.That is more than enough gain to work with that guitar. On the mixer I used the gain is only 45dB on the line channel and I still had gain to spare.

Where and how is he plugging you into the mixer? To a mic channel, line channel etc? Anything between the guitar and mixer? At worst an inexpensive $25 DI would allow you to connect directly to a mic channel. He or she should =know that but I doubt it's necessary.

here are some of the specs for that mixer"
XLR Mic/Line Inputs 1‐16
Balanced, 48V phantom power
Mic/Line Preamp
Fully recallable
Input Sensitivity
‐60 to +5dBu
Analogue Gain
‐5 to +60dB, 1dB steps
Maximum Input Level
+19dBu
Input Impedance
>5kΩ
TRS jack Line inputs 1‐16
Balanced
Input Sensitivity
‐50 to +20dBu
Analogue Gain
‐10 to +60dB, 1dB steps
Maximum Input Level
+29dBu
Input Impedance
>10kΩ
Stereo ST1, ST2 Line Inputs
Balanced, 1/4" TRS jack
Mono capability
L normals through R for Mono input
Input Sensitivity
Nominal +4dBu
Trim
No, he is a sound engineer who also happens to work at this music shop. He is a professional. He runs sound at many local events. Don't make assumptions. We had a DI between the guitar and the mixer when using the QU16 and the Yamaha boards, and went into a Hi-Z channel on the Mackie board. I'm no professional, but I'm no dummy either. I had to push the guitar to almost 50+ dBs on each board and it sounded like trash. So maybe something is not right with the electronics in my guitar then?
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Old 07-24-2017, 10:19 PM
MrErikJ MrErikJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWJ915 View Post
No, he is a sound engineer who also happens to work at this music shop. He is a professional. He runs sound at many local events. Don't make assumptions. We had a DI between the guitar and the mixer when using the QU16 and the Yamaha boards, and went into a Hi-Z channel on the Mackie board. I'm no professional, but I'm no dummy either. I had to push the guitar to almost 50+ dBs on each board and it sounded like trash. So maybe something is not right with the electronics in my guitar then?
I'm inclined to say that something's wrong with your guitar's preamp. I'm guessing that the ES2 has a 9 volt preamp (?) which should produce a high enough gain, low-z signal to take you to a DI with no problem. Most players over-amplify their acoustic signals (most active pickup doesn't really need to be preamped again before going XLR) and that system should have enough power to take you to a DI just fine. You should totally use a preamp/DI with a passive piezo or mag but active systems should be fine with just a passive DI. If your ES2 isn't doing it, I would check with a repair shop as it's probably nothing severe and fully repairable. An outboard preamp would fix the symptoms but not cure the illness.
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Old 07-25-2017, 12:43 AM
Nama Ensou Nama Ensou is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese View Post
Buying any preamp simply to increase the level into a mixer is a wasted step.

It sounds like something is either not configured properly or maybe something else is going on.
Definitely sounds like somethings not right, and I'd agree from my end, that adding an extra piece of gear sounds like a dead end at this point.
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