K&K Pickups: why all the love? - Page 3

tochiro · #31 05-12-2015, 08:40 AM

OP - I also had a bad experience with K&K. It was very boomy, prone to feedback and not sounding very good in my Martin HD28 although I tried many different things and it was installed by a pro. I finally sold it after 2 years.

jonfields45 · #32 05-12-2015, 08:43 AM

I've installed K&Ks and JJBs in over a dozen guitars for various friends and so far everyone is happy. About half plug direct to their PA and the others use preamps but are not equalizing aggressively. I've installed them in a few of my guitars and thought they sounded good but were too feedback prone for my PA of the day (floor monitors that had to project past my dreadnought to get to my ears). Running our sound high and behind has made the K&K style PU work pretty well for my duo partner (HD-28V & D12-20). So add in your floor monitor requirement to personal taste, instrument-to-instrument variation, and that occasional mixer/pedal/DI/amp that loads a K&K really poorly. I give a high premium to not needing a battery too, which colors my opinion. I've also got a guitar with a Baggs Active Element which I can enjoy for what it does with no plans to "fix" it.

TenorAtLarge · #33 05-12-2015, 08:51 AM

OK... so I'm gonna guess that K&K enthusiasts are also insomniacs, lol. I'm seeing more K&K detractors now that it's a reasonable hour everywhere in the US.

As several people on here said prior to me, it's all fairly subjective stuff... but for a minute there I thought I was the only person ever to have issues with owning a K&K. Somebody mentioned that it highlights a dreadnaught sound... that might have factored in as I don't own a single dreadnaught. I'm also wondering if my fairly aggressive rhythmic style wasn't well suited to the K&K design...

Ed-in-Ohio · #34 05-12-2015, 08:52 AM

Pretty much everything we talk about here on the AGF when it comes to "tone" is subjective, and NOTHING is as subjective than acoustic amplified tone.

That said...

Quote:

Originally Posted by TenorAtLarge

...snip... I'm relatively happy with the ES when paired with a Fishman Aura Spectrum...snip...

Ah, you said the three magic words...Fishman Aura Spectrum!

In my opinion that thing is some kind of electronic hoodoo! GREAT amplified tone from USTs and sound hole pickups, and I mean DROP DEAD great.

As a matter of fact, I even think the Aura Spectrum is a great companion to the K&K! IMO, with the blend between 0-25%, the Aura Spectrum really helps improve the tone from a K&K.

Of course, YMMV!

dcopper · #35 05-12-2015, 09:45 AM

I removed the 2012 ES from my cocobolo SLTD 814ce and installed K&K pm plus a Sunrise. Absolutely gorgeous acoustic tone - I can use them together, blending with the RedEye Twin or just use either pickup. I have the same setup on my 914 Tobacco burst non-cutaway that i ordered without electronics. To me, and that is the magical phrase, nothing sounded better. I did not dislike the ES 1.3, but compared to the K&K, it was "thin" . Even Taylor's ES2 pretty much mimics the K&K pm but adds the adjustability as well as onboard controls and preamp. I personally prefer the K&K over the ES2, but I certainly preferred the ES2 to any other version ES with body sensors and neck humbucker. Recently I have been using just the K&K without needing to even add the Sunrise for string definition. It is great either way.

The RedEye preamps are excellent and for me, the Twin works as an excellent blender and I don't have to do any fiddling around to get it to sound great.

There's the love- but just from my ears.
davidc

EmperorPo · #36 05-12-2015, 11:07 AM

I have no experience with the K&K but also thought the same thing as the OP, so much love for this pickup. All the sound clips I have found just don't do it for me. I may be wrong and it might sound really good in person, but I don't know anyone who has one to try out. I recently went with an Anthem SL. Twice the price but I really dig it for what I do.

I am considering a K&K for my GS mini though because of price and to see what the hype is about.

TenorAtLarge · #37 05-12-2015, 11:18 AM

Emperor- if the soundclips aren't really doing it for you, I'd say go with your initial impression. At least maybe find someone that has a K&K in a Taylor and try it out first... like I said, I'm pretty sure mine was either broken or improperly installed, but I'm not really impressed with the K&K in general (aside from how non-invasive the install is).

smurph1 · #38 05-12-2015, 11:26 AM

I've never heard one, but I fully intend to install one in my D-28.. Mainly because I don't want to alter my guitar and also because I hate piezos!! My 2 cents..

JLS · #39 05-12-2015, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TenorAtLarge

So I'm going to throw this out there- I bought a used Taylor GS5 a while back that had a K&K Pure Western pickup installed in it. Unplugged, it was arguably the best sounding acoustic guitar I've ever played. The issue was that when I plugged it in, it sounded like a wet fart. I ultimately ended up selling the guitar off because as a gigging guitarist I don't have the luxury of holding on to a guitar I can't plug in.

I tried everything to make it work- both running it to house DI's and even trying it with a Baggs Para. The thing managed to take an amazing instrument and make it sound ugly.

I've since swapped over to a Taylor 415ce with the Expression System 1.1 in it, and in the course of my research trying to figure out which ES I had, I saw thread after thread of people talking about ripping out their stock ES pickups and slapping in K&K's. I'm relatively happy with the ES when paired with a Fishman Aura Spectrum, so here's my question: what's with the K&K love-fest? I can't be the only person out there that's had a bad experience with K&K... I'd just like to know that I'm not totally insane.

Sounds like a bad installation.

stephenT · #40 05-12-2015, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurph1

I've never heard one, but I fully intend to install one in my D-28.. Mainly because I don't want to alter my guitar and also because I hate piezos!! My 2 cents..

I could be wrong but,.. isn't the K&K a contact piezo pickup?

ljguitar · #41 05-12-2015, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by talkgtr

I could be wrong but,.. isn't the K&K a contact piezo pickup?

Hi tg…
It is piezo based technology.

It does not quack…

lmacmil · #42 05-12-2015, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TenorAtLarge

So I'm going to throw this out there- I bought a used Taylor GS5 a while back that had a K&K Pure Western pickup installed in it. Unplugged, it was arguably the best sounding acoustic guitar I've ever played. The issue was that when I plugged it in, it sounded like a wet fart.

I tried everything to make it work- both running it to house DI's and even trying it with a Baggs Para. The thing managed to take an amazing instrument and make it sound ugly.

I had K&Ks in two guitars. I thought they sounded very good thru a K&K preamp and not good at all directly into a mixer (even thru a DI). Most ES equipped Taylors I have heard sound very good to me.

I am amused by the endless threads asking for pickup recommendations. As far as I'm concerned, what other people like is totally irrelevant unless I can hear it myself. K&K gets about 80% of the recommendations and yet your experience proves that not everyone loves them.

krisls · #43 05-12-2015, 06:25 PM

Okay, I have a lovely custom built 000 and I wanted to pickup it. I asked the luthier and he suggested either an Anthem or a K&K. I went K&K for the minimalist invasiveness and I believed good sound. No pickup is perfect.

I tried it out and loved it. Clean clear and good balance. My main repair guy was sceptical so we plugged into his little AER Alpha and instantly he was impressed. I tried it in all sorts of venues and the only fail was on a close stage with a band and high sound pressure, I just could not fully tame the feedback.

I use this guitar in small quieter venues and love it still, oh I run it through a Radial PZ Deluxe just to give that extra tweakability. I do not regret the install at all and may at some point look at a trinity, but I'm not sure I want to fiddle about with dual setups.

But... my main 'work' is pop/rock type covers in pubs etc and for general ease of use and onboard tweakability plus the fact it is worth about half the custom my main live guitar is a Tak w' cooltube. So... as ever it depends and it is personal.

Kris

alohachris · #44 05-12-2015, 06:43 PM

Aloha Friends,

We get so hung up on these pickup comparisons.

For me, as a half-century-plus, mostly solo gigger who has used or auditioned most of the pickups that have arrived in the last 45 years, ALL PICKUPS - USED ALONE - COMPROMISE YOUR ACOUSTIC SOUND, CHANGE YOUR DYNAMICS & WAY OF PLAYING GUITAR, & WORSE, THEY SOUND UN-NATURAL.

However, like many players, I truly love the natural acoustic sound of playing an acoustic guitar & my choices in live gear are all about going for that un-processed, un-compressed, un-electric sound. But those pesky pickups - USED ALONE- rob us of that natural sound & control, even as they are a necessary evil in order for us to be heard in most venues. What to do?

Outside of using a very good live mic (which I use when I can in the best & quietest rooms), the second best choice for me is using an SBT pickup combined w/ an internal condenser mic. This allows me to completely & separately EQ the two sources & achieve much better room & tone control in a much wider variety of rooms.

And so, the K&K Mini SBT pickup combined with an AKG 416 hyper-cardioid internal condenser mic gives me the above better than any other combo I have auditioned or used to date. Using it through a great signal chain with some great EQ is the key to control (I never have feedback). Been using that combo & through an excellent live signal chain in my three small-bodied gigging guitars for over 12 years now.

I don't know how players who use ANY brand/kind of single pickup alone can stand the very un-acoustic amplified sound & lack of the type of room & tone control I just described. Especially UST's & dynamic sound-hole pickups used alone. Yikes! Not if you're into natural acoustic guitar sound, right? UST's mid-rangey, quacky ear fatigue is nobody's favorite - especially players & audiences.

I'll take it farther: I'd rather go back to using an external mic alone (as we did in the 60's before acoustic pickups existed) than use ANY single pickup alone - including the K&K.

One thing to remember: the K&K is a great "glue" pickup which means it can be combined very well with just about any other kind of source. That is not true of most other pickups, especially the Anthem & Lyric which are also difficult to separately EQ, IMO. That's a real reason why so many giggers prefer using a K&K mini P/U with a mic in a dual+ source systems, IMO. It really works with anything, anywhere & its not as proprietary or exclusionary as Baggs products! In just about every situation, the K&K mini works very well. That's why the K&K is so popular with acoustic players - especially if it's installed properly, OP!

Check out dual-source systems friends & plan a great live signal chain. That'll get you where you want to go for natural sound & control better than ANY single pickup used alone, especially for solo gigging. However, unless you invest in very good control units in your signal chain - live great EQ - your pickup choice won't matter that much at all. It's the whole signal chain not just the pickup that must be carefully chosen.

BTW, the PUTW #54 is also a great SBT pickup. Some of the B-Bands aren't too un-natural either. the McIntyre Feather, Trance Amulet's, Schertler Dyn-G & Dazzo's are also popular in the similar upscale P/U class. No recommendations for UST's. I do have a Duncan SA-6 Magmic dynamic, sound-hole pickup that I slip in when it's rarely too insanely loud for acoustic anything. Not as natural, but I can still use an acoustic guitar in a situation that normally precludes it. But I don't use it more than once or twice a year anymore, mostly at loud blues jams w/ drum & bass on a tight stage.

A Hui Hou!

alohachris

Aaron Smith · #45 05-12-2015, 06:51 PM

I've tried a bunch of pickups, and every single one came with compromises. I'm not totally in love with the K&K, but for me it offers me the best balance of compromises. It's relatively cheap and easy to install. It doesn't permanently change my instruments. It doesn't affect the unplugged tone. Soundmen seem to be able to handle it with ease. It needs quite a bit of EQ to sound the way I like, but beyond that it's dead easy to use.

I haven't found a pickup yet that works perfectly for me out of the box, they all take some work. I just find that I need less fiddling around with the K&K to get a sound that I like.