The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Archtops

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 08-25-2016, 08:26 AM
SolidSpruceTop SolidSpruceTop is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Lawrenceville GA
Posts: 123
Default Is an L50 worth keeping?

So I picked up a L50 Black Special from the late 30's the other week, and have been trying to decide what to do with it. I want to own an archtop, but I'm not sure if this is the best or if I should sell it and buy another. I had some medium chromes on it for a couple days, but the action lowered just a hair after a day and made me panic a bit and replace them with Martin S&S which sound rather dead. It is lacking a little low end for my taste, but overall it seems to fit gypsy jazz rhythm rather well. Anyway, cutting to the chase, there are a lot of nice options under $1000 out there, so would I be better off selling this and picking something used up? My local store has a Loar 300 down to $320, so I've been meaning to check it out and see if I like it better...

http://imgur.com/a/HxhZY
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-25-2016, 08:56 AM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Staten Island, NY - for now
Posts: 14,985
Default

You've got a prewar Gibson, in a non-standard color, and you want to trade it on a run-of-the-mill factory-made Chinese instrument - what am I missing here...???

My thoughts: before you do anything you'll regret 5/10/20 years down the line, get rid of those silk-&-steels - totally wrong unless you're only playing Gypsy jazz - install a set of the heaviest strings you can handle (14's - with a wound B - were commonplace back in this guitar's heyday, so I wouldn't be concerned about a modern PB 13 or 14 set), and get a good pro setup including bridge-base fitting (a poorly fitted bridge is probably the biggest tone-sucker in the archtop world); I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at just how much tone is in there...
__________________
"Mistaking silence for weakness and contempt for fear is the final, fatal error of a fool"
- Sicilian proverb (paraphrased)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-25-2016, 09:13 AM
MC5C MC5C is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Tatamagouche Nova Scotia
Posts: 1,136
Default

I'm kinda with Steve on this - keep it a while, see how you like it after a few months or so. Pre-war Gibson has a quality all it's own, simply in the vibe and the "where it's been". I personally feel that putting the heaviest strings possible on is an old wives tale. I've never had an archtop sound better with 14's, 12's are the heaviest I would ever use, and I tune my own personal guitar down to D to get the feel and depth of sound I want. But the point of trying different strings, getting a good setup and so on is what you should do with any guitar.

Now the modern thing. Modern archtops sound very different to old school archtops. They are often made far lighter, and have a wider range. If that appeals to you, go for it. If you can afford many guitars, find a couple of archtops you like and just keep them. If you can't afford many guitars, keep what you have and don't buy another until it simply forces you to, insists it is your guitar. Buying on a maybe and not being sure is unfathomable to me, now - but I did it a lot when I was young and had disposable income!
__________________
Brian Evans
Around 15 archtops, electrics, resonators, a lap steel, a uke, a mandolin, some I made, some I bought, some kinda showed up and wouldn't leave. Tatamagouche Nova Scotia.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-25-2016, 09:13 AM
Archtop Guy Archtop Guy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Golden State
Posts: 679
Default

My brother has an L50 that is a guitar for the ages, it can play anything.

Simple. Keep it.

(And, I'll second Steve on the strings. At least .013s anyway. It will make a huge difference.)
__________________
Find your voice and tell a story!

Circle 'Round the Sun
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-25-2016, 01:22 PM
L50EF15 L50EF15 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 262
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archtop Guy View Post
My brother has an L50 that is a guitar for the ages, it can play anything.

Simple. Keep it.

(And, I'll second Steve on the strings. At least .013s anyway. It will make a huge difference.)
And I'll second (and third) these thoughts. My L50 is a 1960, with a neck much like a Les Paul or SG. It is an extraordinarily versatile instrument. I've used .013 Chromes on it for more than a decade. Get a good pro setup and try the Chromes again, but don't jump into selling it, as Steve says.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-25-2016, 01:51 PM
jomaynor jomaynor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,193
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSpruceTop View Post
So I picked up a L50 Black Special from the late 30's the other week, and have been trying to decide what to do with it. I want to own an archtop, but I'm not sure if this is the best or if I should sell it and buy another. I had some medium chromes on it for a couple days, but the action lowered just a hair after a day and made me panic a bit and replace them with Martin S&S which sound rather dead. It is lacking a little low end for my taste, but overall it seems to fit gypsy jazz rhythm rather well. Anyway, cutting to the chase, there are a lot of nice options under $1000 out there, so would I be better off selling this and picking something used up? My local store has a Loar 300 down to $320, so I've been meaning to check it out and see if I like it better...

http://imgur.com/a/HxhZY

If you want to sell it for a fair price, fine.

If you would prefer to keep it if it sounded better, then I would recommend that you take it to Scott Baxendale in Athens, which isn't far from Lawrenceville. Scott is a first-rate luthier, and one of his specialties is bringing out the best in old guitars.

http://baxendaleguitar.com/
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-25-2016, 01:58 PM
SolidSpruceTop SolidSpruceTop is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Lawrenceville GA
Posts: 123
Default

Wow, thanks for all the input! (I gotta figure out how to get post reply notifications set up here, I haven't used this forum setup in years :P)

I'm afraid of the top sinking in on this guitar, as those medium chromes did make the action lower a hair after the first day. The second day it was ok, but the third day I took them off lol. I guess I'm still unsure as to what different sound options I have. I'll try and head out to a store next week that has a nice Eastman and play around with it, though the $2000 price tag makes it a but unreasonable for an alternative. I really have a love for the oval holes but those are rather rare.

I must admit that the reason I'm even considering selling this is because I'm rather poor. Still in high school and only make my money flipping instruments and electronics. I got this for basically $400, a Washburn tenor for $100 and a free Asheville mando. All on loaned money. If I could just sell the banjo and mando, that'd be great, but so far no bites on CL. I might have to fix up a cello I have sitting around the past few months and sell that to finance this archtop

Hooo boy I rambled.

I heard the JS112 strings are good and last forever, but are they worth it over the Chromes Jazz Light with swapped out plain steels for half the price?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jomaynor View Post
If you want to sell it for a fair price, fine.

If you would prefer to keep it if it sounded better, then I would recommend that you take it to Scott Baxendale in Athens, which isn't far from Lawrenceville. Scott is a first-rate luthier, and one of his specialties is bringing out the best in old guitars.

http://baxendaleguitar.com/
At first I thought I sold a Harmony guitar to this guy. A couple months ago I sold a guitar to a man who rebuilds them around here, Morris Rowell. His name was Morris I believe. How much does this guy charge on average for a setup and crowning? This guitar plays great, the previous owner had a lutheir friend in Columbus, GA, just the frets are worn pretty badly

Last edited by SolidSpruceTop; 08-25-2016 at 02:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-25-2016, 02:21 PM
jomaynor jomaynor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,193
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSpruceTop View Post
At first I thought I sold a Harmony guitar to this guy. A couple months ago I sold a guitar to a man who rebuilds them around here, Morris Rowell. His name was Morris I believe. How much does this guy charge on average for a setup and crowning? This guitar plays great, the previous owner had a lutheir friend in Columbus, GA, just the frets are worn pretty badly

You'd need to check with him yourself on that.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-26-2016, 09:28 AM
Hot Vibrato Hot Vibrato is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 458
Default

L-50's are often great sounding guitars. But your string choices thus far don't do the guitar justice, so I'm not surprised that you're not impressed with the tone.

Chromes are typically used for electric archtops, but sound somewhat lame acoustically. And virtually no archtop sounds good with silk and steel strings - just not enough tension to adequately move the top. If you are more partial to lighter strings, then a selmer style gypsy guitar might be more to your liking.

Acoustic archtops were designed for heavy strings, and that's the only way to get a good sound out of them. Install the appropriate strings, and only then can you begin to evaluate the sound of the guitar. I suggest having it set up with a set of 13-56 gauge bronze strings, and it's likely that your opinion of that guitar will change drastically. And yes, lots of those guitars' tops kind of sag a little bit. I don't think it really hurts them. I wouldn't worry about it unless it has loose braces (it probably doesn't or you'd know it). The bottom line is that if you use light strings to prevent the top from sagging, your guitar will sound lame. My '39 L-37's top sagged when I bought it (almost 20 years ago). It's been strung up with 13-56 as long as I've owned it, and while the top does sag a little bit, it hasn't gotten any worse, and no damage has occurred as a result, and it sounds amazing.

Last edited by Hot Vibrato; 08-26-2016 at 09:42 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-26-2016, 02:16 PM
SolidSpruceTop SolidSpruceTop is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Lawrenceville GA
Posts: 123
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Vibrato View Post
L-50's are often great sounding guitars. But your string choices thus far don't do the guitar justice, so I'm not surprised that you're not impressed with the tone.

Chromes are typically used for electric archtops, but sound somewhat lame acoustically. And virtually no archtop sounds good with silk and steel strings - just not enough tension to adequately move the top. If you are more partial to lighter strings, then a selmer style gypsy guitar might be more to your liking.

Acoustic archtops were designed for heavy strings, and that's the only way to get a good sound out of them. Install the appropriate strings, and only then can you begin to evaluate the sound of the guitar. I suggest having it set up with a set of 13-56 gauge bronze strings, and it's likely that your opinion of that guitar will change drastically. And yes, lots of those guitars' tops kind of sag a little bit. I don't think it really hurts them. I wouldn't worry about it unless it has loose braces (it probably doesn't or you'd know it). The bottom line is that if you use light strings to prevent the top from sagging, your guitar will sound lame. My '39 L-37's top sagged when I bought it (almost 20 years ago). It's been strung up with 13-56 as long as I've owned it, and while the top does sag a little bit, it hasn't gotten any worse, and no damage has occurred as a result, and it sounds amazing.
Thanks for your input. When I got this guitar it had what looked like PB on it and they sounded horrid. From what I can tell, this guitar is only good with flatwounds, or maybe flat tops too. There's a lot of highs in it's chops, so it needs incredibly mellow strings. Chromes are actually what my teacher recommended me, and he's been in the jazz scene for about 30 years. But different strokes for different folks

I think for now I'll just order some light Chromes and sit on those for a month or two and see where it takes me.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-26-2016, 02:26 PM
mr. beaumont mr. beaumont is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 10,189
Default

Generally, I keep the flats for electric archtops. Acoustic archtops aren't really mellow by nature.
__________________
Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:

http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-27-2016, 08:08 AM
Hot Vibrato Hot Vibrato is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 458
Default

Archtop guitars aren't for everyone. It could be that you're just not an archtop kind of guy.

Archtop acoustics tend to be bright, especially if the strings are too light. For instance, if it had light gauge bronze strings, then yeah, it would definitely sound way too bright. A medium set of 80/20 bronze strings will be somewhat bright at first and then mellow out after a few hours of playing time. Round wound nickel strings are another option. They're also a bit bright at first, but with less overtones. Flatwounds, on the other hand, just aren't loud enough acoustically to work very well.

Flat top guitars tend to naturally have a more balanced sound. Archtops require a certain finesse to get a good tone. Because archtops naturally favor the high frequencies, it's up to the player to coax the low end out of it. It's all in the technique, and it takes a bit of experimentation (using appropriate strings) on the part of the player to get there. Oh yeah - you can't let the back of an archtop rest against your belly while you're playing, or you'll lose your low end response.

At the risk of belaboring my point, I've played and worked on lots of archtops, and I've yet to see one that didn't sound its best with medium gauge roundwound strings. Whatever you decide, good luck to you, and keep us posted!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-27-2016, 09:02 AM
SolidSpruceTop SolidSpruceTop is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Lawrenceville GA
Posts: 123
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Vibrato View Post
Archtop guitars aren't for everyone. It could be that you're just not an archtop kind of guy.

Archtop acoustics tend to be bright, especially if the strings are too light. For instance, if it had light gauge bronze strings, then yeah, it would definitely sound way too bright. A medium set of 80/20 bronze strings will be somewhat bright at first and then mellow out after a few hours of playing time. Round wound nickel strings are another option. They're also a bit bright at first, but with less overtones. Flatwounds, on the other hand, just aren't loud enough acoustically to work very well.

Flat top guitars tend to naturally have a more balanced sound. Archtops require a certain finesse to get a good tone. Because archtops naturally favor the high frequencies, it's up to the player to coax the low end out of it. It's all in the technique, and it takes a bit of experimentation (using appropriate strings) on the part of the player to get there. Oh yeah - you can't let the back of an archtop rest against your belly while you're playing, or you'll lose your low end response.

At the risk of belaboring my point, I've played and worked on lots of archtops, and I've yet to see one that didn't sound its best with medium gauge roundwound strings. Whatever you decide, good luck to you, and keep us posted!
I've decided I'll pick up some light round wounds to try and balance out the tone while I learn the technique. I've wanted an archtop for a couple years now, so I'm gonna stick with it for a bit. A gypsy jazz guitar might be more up my ally, but I'm gonna stick with this for a while. By the way, I play rhythm, which is probably why I prefer the flatwounds
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-29-2016, 06:57 AM
savofenno savofenno is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Sweden
Posts: 17
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSpruceTop View Post
So I picked up a L50 Black Special from the late 30's the other week, and have been trying to decide what to do with it. I want to own an archtop, but I'm not sure if this is the best or if I should sell it and buy another. I had some medium chromes on it for a couple days, but the action lowered just a hair after a day and made me panic a bit and replace them with Martin S&S which sound rather dead. It is lacking a little low end for my taste, but overall it seems to fit gypsy jazz rhythm rather well. Anyway, cutting to the chase, there are a lot of nice options under $1000 out there, so would I be better off selling this and picking something used up? My local store has a Loar 300 down to $320, so I've been meaning to check it out and see if I like it better...

http://imgur.com/a/HxhZY
My experience about Martin is, great guitars, but not very good strings. Stiff and plain sounding.

Your L50 looks that good as i your image of it, and it is a late 30`s one? Keep it, it must be great with everything checked and corrected, like how the bridge sits on top, and suitable strings used.

I would never sell it without througly checking everything first!

Last edited by savofenno; 10-23-2016 at 01:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-29-2016, 07:09 AM
zombywoof zombywoof is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 9,356
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSpruceTop View Post

I heard the JS112 strings are good and last forever, but are they worth it over the Chromes Jazz Light with swapped out plain steels for half the price?

Just my opinion but I have never met an archtop that did not scream to be strung with 13's
__________________
"You start off playing guitars to get girls & end up talking with middle-aged men about your fingernails" - Ed Gerhard
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Archtops

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=