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  #1  
Old 05-21-2019, 10:23 PM
The Kid! The Kid! is offline
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Default Tonedexter Training Day

I put a Fishman Matrix Infinity in my J-45 and I took some time today to make some new wave maps. I used an SM81 and did all of the recommended mic positions. I made all of the wave maps in slot 22 and transferred them to open locations.

I got one that sounded better than any wave map I have heard yet, and put that in slot 15. After I was done, I tried the same mic position as my favorite, and it came out different. It was as close to where I had it before, but it lacked the warmth and fullness that the one in slot 15 has.

It still sounds great, and it's very usable, but I couldn't duplicate the previous one. I deleted it and tried again, and it sounded about the same as the most recent. I guess trying multiple takes in the same position can yield slightly different results.

Be patient and try everything you can. My previous favorite position was up top at 12". This time down below at 12" sounded best, but I wasn't able to do any better back to back. I'm happy enough with slot 15, and there are a couple more that are really good as well.

I remain very excited about the Tonedexter. I made a couple with the Schatten HFN today too and those sounded really good. It's not as drastic of an improvement as the Matrix, but it's still better to my ears than the raw pickup.

I'd suggest using slot 22 to train and then transfer to open slots. Try different positions, and experiment with new ones. Try the same position multiple times and keep the best one. It's easy to move them, and quick to delete and set up a new one.
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Current:
1952 Gibson J-45
- Schatten HFN passive / Fishman Matrix Infinity
1983 Washburn Timber Ridge Custom
- Fishman Onboard Prefix Premium Blend & - Schatten HFN passive
2016 Gibson J-45 Standard
- Fishman Onboard Prefix Premium Blend & - Schatten HFN passive backup
Tonedexter & Sunnaudio Stage DI
1990 Yamaha FS-310

Past:
1995 Martin D-28
2015 Eastman E10SS
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  #2  
Old 05-22-2019, 04:59 AM
rmp rmp is offline
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I am finding pretty much what you're talking about.

Subtle changes with varying mic positions, even if you use the same relative position, you get something different.

I've been doing two or three at a time, and then keeping them in slots next to each other to compare, overwriting the ones that are the least appealing to what I hear

I'm taking notes as I go too, just to see what the patterns of mic placement do for variance

I do need to have a better way to organize the wave maps. I like the sound of your method.

I am using an AKG C 2000 B condenser. I'm sure if I used a better mic, I'd get better results, but that's all I have available at the moment.
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  #3  
Old 05-22-2019, 07:16 AM
The Kid! The Kid! is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmp View Post
I am finding pretty much what you're talking about.

Subtle changes with varying mic positions, even if you use the same relative position, you get something different.

I've been doing two or three at a time, and then keeping them in slots next to each other to compare, overwriting the ones that are the least appealing to what I hear

I'm taking notes as I go too, just to see what the patterns of mic placement do for variance

I do need to have a better way to organize the wave maps. I like the sound of your method.

I am using an AKG C 2000 B condenser. I'm sure if I used a better mic, I'd get better results, but that's all I have available at the moment.
I am fortunate to have a good enough relationship with the studios that I work at to borrow a mic and cans for a night to take home. Call some studios and see if they'll rent a mic out. I still want to try a Slate ML2, but the SM81 has been fantastic.

Tried a Telefunken and an AKG that were ok, and didn't like the Neumann KM185 at all. It had a upper midrange presence peak that made the wave maps sound nasally.

It's definitely worth recording as many as you can, reviewing them, and saving the maps that you like. I like to record a bunch and review as I go, but this time, I had it set up to review immediately through a PA speaker. It allowed me to scrap a couple right away and re-train.

This was the first time that I trained with the tone wheel in the middle. Not sure if it makes a huge difference, but I read that somewhere. I got my best results yet.

Also, pay attention to the input trim.
__________________
Current:
1952 Gibson J-45
- Schatten HFN passive / Fishman Matrix Infinity
1983 Washburn Timber Ridge Custom
- Fishman Onboard Prefix Premium Blend & - Schatten HFN passive
2016 Gibson J-45 Standard
- Fishman Onboard Prefix Premium Blend & - Schatten HFN passive backup
Tonedexter & Sunnaudio Stage DI
1990 Yamaha FS-310

Past:
1995 Martin D-28
2015 Eastman E10SS
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  #4  
Old 05-22-2019, 07:31 AM
rmp rmp is offline
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My son has a recording studio, and he does have some high end mics. I would guess he's got some that are much better than what I'm using.

I will probably head over there some afternoon with a few guitars and the TD in tow see what happens.

For now however, the results I do get with the AKG are absolutely an improvement to what the guitars sound like without the TD. I have a nice Taylor Nylon, but the expression system ESN is very hard to work with. The tonedexter made a vast improvement there.

My SJ200 and Taylor Grand Symphony have Infinities, they sound far more natural with the TD than without.

So over all, I am happy with what it's done,

The idea of trying to use a better mic is s really something I'm interested in doing. Plus I get to watch my grandson run around like a nut!

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  #5  
Old 05-22-2019, 07:56 AM
The Kid! The Kid! is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmp View Post
My son has a recording studio, and he does have some high end mics. I would guess he's got some that are much better than what I'm using.

I will probably head over there some afternoon with a few guitars and the TD in tow see what happens.

For now however, the results I do get with the AKG are absolutely an improvement to what the guitars sound like without the TD. I have a nice Taylor Nylon, but the expression system ESN is very hard to work with. The tonedexter made a vast improvement there.

My SJ200 and Taylor Grand Symphony have Infinities, they sound far more natural with the TD than without.

So over all, I am happy with what it's done,

The idea of trying to use a better mic is s really something I'm interested in doing. Plus I get to watch my grandson run around like a nut!

Sounds like a perfect day!

Try an SM81 if he has one.
__________________
Current:
1952 Gibson J-45
- Schatten HFN passive / Fishman Matrix Infinity
1983 Washburn Timber Ridge Custom
- Fishman Onboard Prefix Premium Blend & - Schatten HFN passive
2016 Gibson J-45 Standard
- Fishman Onboard Prefix Premium Blend & - Schatten HFN passive backup
Tonedexter & Sunnaudio Stage DI
1990 Yamaha FS-310

Past:
1995 Martin D-28
2015 Eastman E10SS
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  #6  
Old 05-22-2019, 08:18 AM
rmp rmp is offline
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thx for the tip, not sure what he's got, but I know he's got a sizeable mic locker and a scary amount of $ invested there.
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  #7  
Old 05-22-2019, 09:28 AM
Gordon Currie Gordon Currie is offline
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Using slot 22, Tonedexter will forego adjustments that improve feedback immunity.

So be aware that the Wavemap made in slot 22 might be more susceptible to issues when used live than a Wavemap made in any other slot.
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  #8  
Old 05-22-2019, 01:11 PM
The Kid! The Kid! is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Currie View Post
Using slot 22, Tonedexter will forego adjustments that improve feedback immunity.

So be aware that the Wavemap made in slot 22 might be more susceptible to issues when used live than a Wavemap made in any other slot.
Thank you, I know.

It sounds better and I run sound in addition to playing live, so no worries here.
__________________
Current:
1952 Gibson J-45
- Schatten HFN passive / Fishman Matrix Infinity
1983 Washburn Timber Ridge Custom
- Fishman Onboard Prefix Premium Blend & - Schatten HFN passive
2016 Gibson J-45 Standard
- Fishman Onboard Prefix Premium Blend & - Schatten HFN passive backup
Tonedexter & Sunnaudio Stage DI
1990 Yamaha FS-310

Past:
1995 Martin D-28
2015 Eastman E10SS
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  #9  
Old 05-22-2019, 01:51 PM
gfirob gfirob is offline
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I went back and re-did all my wavemaps for my four guitars and they were much better, probably because I was more comfortable with the device and used to the process (and more patient). I would do three or four for each guitar, play them off against each other, choose the best and save it, then delete the losers. Didn't take that long and it was a big improvement. I used the Ear Trumpet Edwina that I bought after borrowing one for my first wavemap attempts. I am a big fan boy of the Tonedexter and it has never me down. I think it is a miracle right up there with the Shroud of Turin...
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1957 National 1155 (Gibson J45 body, National neck) K&K's
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  #10  
Old 05-22-2019, 03:00 PM
The Kid! The Kid! is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gfirob View Post
I went back and re-did all my wavemaps for my four guitars and they were much better, probably because I was more comfortable with the device and used to the process (and more patient). I would do three or four for each guitar, play them off against each other, choose the best and save it, then delete the losers. Didn't take that long and it was a big improvement. I used the Ear Trumpet Edwina that I bought after borrowing one for my first wavemap attempts. I am a big fan boy of the Tonedexter and it has never me down. I think it is a miracle right up there with the Shroud of Turin...
I usually keep a couple of the losers, because I never know what will sound good from room to room or in a mix.
__________________
Current:
1952 Gibson J-45
- Schatten HFN passive / Fishman Matrix Infinity
1983 Washburn Timber Ridge Custom
- Fishman Onboard Prefix Premium Blend & - Schatten HFN passive
2016 Gibson J-45 Standard
- Fishman Onboard Prefix Premium Blend & - Schatten HFN passive backup
Tonedexter & Sunnaudio Stage DI
1990 Yamaha FS-310

Past:
1995 Martin D-28
2015 Eastman E10SS
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  #11  
Old 05-22-2019, 10:26 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
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I finally got some nice wavemaps with the Slate ML-2 using the latest firmware. Experimenting with different positions is key.
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  #12  
Old 05-23-2019, 12:17 PM
The Kid! The Kid! is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarLuva View Post
I finally got some nice wavemaps with the Slate ML-2 using the latest firmware. Experimenting with different positions is key.
Have you tried an SM81? How do the two compare?
__________________
Current:
1952 Gibson J-45
- Schatten HFN passive / Fishman Matrix Infinity
1983 Washburn Timber Ridge Custom
- Fishman Onboard Prefix Premium Blend & - Schatten HFN passive
2016 Gibson J-45 Standard
- Fishman Onboard Prefix Premium Blend & - Schatten HFN passive backup
Tonedexter & Sunnaudio Stage DI
1990 Yamaha FS-310

Past:
1995 Martin D-28
2015 Eastman E10SS
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  #13  
Old 05-23-2019, 12:36 PM
Willie_D Willie_D is offline
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King Kong ain't got nothing on ToneDexter

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  #14  
Old 05-23-2019, 01:47 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kid! View Post
Have you tried an SM81?
No I haven't tried an SM81. The only other instrument mic I've tried besides the Slate ML-2 was the Audix i5, which is a very underrated mic I might add and also works great with Tonedexter.

I love my Tonedexter, the ability to create your own wavemaps is a blessing and a curse for those of us with OCD. If you get a wavemap you're unhappy with, you just gotta keep on trying an eventually you will get a full bank of awesome ones.
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  #15  
Old 05-23-2019, 03:04 PM
shufflebeat shufflebeat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmp View Post
Subtle changes with varying mic positions, even if you use the same relative position, you get something different.
I've found playing technique makes a significant difference. I can play whole chords, partial chords, bass lines and melodies, all with the same mic/position and get widely varying responses.
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