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  #46  
Old 02-12-2019, 03:31 PM
AmericanEagle AmericanEagle is offline
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Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post


Depression , for me, follows anxiety.

Anxiety come when one has an issue or problem that you cannot resolve.

Depression is what happens when the anxiety exhausts you and you feel beaten by ... well everything/anything.
This is an accurate assessment, in my opinion.
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Last edited by AmericanEagle; 02-12-2019 at 06:31 PM.
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  #47  
Old 02-12-2019, 05:16 PM
Twelvefret Twelvefret is offline
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Originally Posted by Davis Webb View Post
Depression rates are increasing, especially in young people and seniors. Its also a trend in women and men of working age.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...1030134631.htm

Blue Shield data shows an incidence between 2 and 6 per cent, with Hawaii the lowest and Rhode Island the highest. This is an increase over the past 10 years.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...-shows-n873146

20-30% increases are seen over the past decade, depending on the location. An alarming 33% spike from 2005-2015. Mostly the young.

What is up with this? Is depression simply a response to an increasingly complicated and divided world or a hard economy with little hope? Too much video time? But if its technology, why then are 10-20% of seniors suffering from it, according the WHO?

Maybe it always existed but was unreported. But that seems a dismissive answer, it does not point to causes. Yes, depression can be chemical. But it can also be reactive. If you graduate with $100K in loans and cannot find a job for 2 years that is stable?

Finally, did we, the baby boomers, fail? Did we create a generation of self centered kids who demanded we feed them sushi and we did so they did not tantrum? Did we raise a crop of kids who have no resilience, or did we leave them a world of misery?

Either way, depression is increasing in incidence and I would like us to talk about how we could reduce it and whether its alarming or par for the course with big data collection...

Thoughts?
Please don't dis other generations. We were just as inexperienced.

People get depressed for more than one reason. Some have a perception of how life is supposed to be. When it does not happen they are disappointed and get mad/depressed.

The secret is to have no such perceptions and to remembers many have it much worse off than we do.

Love the little ones and teach then gently. Nothing worse than them thinking their elders were old bitter men.
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  #48  
Old 02-12-2019, 07:17 PM
Wengr Wengr is offline
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Diagnosed mild to severe clinical in 1996. It had been going on for years prior.

Different people are different obviously, but with all due respect, I don't personally believe that anything mentioned here is remotely responsible for my issues with brain chemistry.
It is what it is for whatever reason, and I am very grateful that my quality of life has been very significantly improved by those involved in pharmaceutical science, and health care providers.
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  #49  
Old 02-19-2019, 06:29 AM
Neil K Walk Neil K Walk is offline
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Hi, my name is Neil and I'm depressed - but I'm getting better. I've been talking to a therapist for about 2 years now and he's helped me steer my attitude toward looking for the silver lining and not beat myself up so much over how I believe others feel about me.

Is it hereditary? I don't know...maybe? The only reason I'm depressed is because of the actions and attitudes of family members (among other people,) not the genes we share; I believe in nurture over nature. My father in law (who has an undergraduate degree in psychology but was an elementary school principal for 35 years) liked to joke that (mental disease) was hereditary; you get it from your kids.

In all seriousness though, is depression an illness? I believe so, in that as far as illnesses go you can recover if you work at it; it's a chronic illness that must be managed (like diabetes) but left untreated it can escalate and take over your mind (like cancer does to the body.)

Back to the nurture angle though, I wholeheartedly believe that the mind can get infected by many things. Trauma, which IMO leads to anxiety and if left unchecked to antisocial behavior as a defense mechanism. Obsession/Compulsion, which IMO is a type of addiction - or even rejection, which IMO causes one's mind to turn on itself and succumb to depression.

That's just me talking though. That's why I find therapy so helpful. I arrive at answers that work for me, even if they're not "right." IMO psychology is a "soft" science that is more an offshoot of philosophy as opposed to neurology which is more grounded in physiology. OTOH the burden on wanting to heal is on the patient, where it should be IMO. If there was such a thing as a "happy pill" I don't think I'd want it; I like being me.
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  #50  
Old 02-19-2019, 04:33 PM
Twelvefret Twelvefret is offline
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I read a David Brooks book last year, "The Road to Character". He discussed the great life motivations. Some say money, some power. Brooks said that the desire to be relevant is the true motivator. Since stumbling on this concept, I have attempted to seek to be relevant.

Having several children and grandchildren, my desire is to be a significant influence for good in their lives. For me this is more important that power or money since either is fleeting and easily gone with the wind. Relevance remains if you make others oriented choices.
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  #51  
Old 02-24-2019, 11:54 PM
Guitars+gems Guitars+gems is offline
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I have wondered if SSRI's are the cigarettes of today. Hear me out.

I'm a boomer. When I was growing up, it seemed like everyone smoked cigarettes. My parents smoked, my friends' parents smoked, the teachers smoked. Smoking was allowed pretty much everywhere; restaurants, airplanes, even movie theaters. Smoking was pretty normal.

Anyone who has ever smoked knows what a mood enhancing drug nicotine can be. It calms, it stimulates, induces feelings of well being, and when ingested by mouth or lungs the effects are immediate. Smoking is orally gratifying, It's comforting. Oh sure, it is addicting but it didn't used to be a hard habit to feed. Cigarettes were cheap, easily available and smoking was socially acceptable.

That was all before. Before we became aware of the dangers. Before we saw images of the black, withered lungs of smokers. Before the surgeon general's warnings. Before we found out about the scheming of the tobacco companies. Before we knew about second-hand smoke. Etc.

I have often thought that all that smoking was self-medication against depression. Many, many, many people used cigarettes to make themselves feel better, as hedges against depression and anxiety. And now they've been pretty much deprived of that option. Yes of course, there are still smokers, but really, it's difficult to smoke these days. My daughter lives in an apartment building where smoking is not permitted anywhere on the property, not even in the private apartments. And I think cigarettes cost 10 or 12 bucks a pack.

In addition to all the pressures of modern life, many of which have been mentioned in this thread, I suspect that loss of tobacco use as a form of self-medication is partly why we're seeing so much diagnosed depression. I mean, life is hard now, but life was even harder a hundred years ago, albeit in different ways. And actually, some of the same ways too. The human struggle hasn't changed all that much really.

So yeah...maybe Prozac is the new Lucky Strike.
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  #52  
Old 02-25-2019, 04:53 AM
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Denise: While it's conceivable that adults with depression might self-medicate with cigartettes, it's equally likely that they could self-medicate with sweets (my unfortunate "drug" of choice), alcohol, pot, overspending or any number of other things that might provide a temporary escape from the malaise of depression. I've likely been depressed most of my 68 years and only started taking antidepressant medication when my life hit pretty close to rock bottom in my 40s. Antidepressant medication has allowed me to find the joy of living since then that I didn't even know was possible. BTW I've never smoked a single cigarette in my entire life....
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  #53  
Old 02-25-2019, 06:00 AM
Neil K Walk Neil K Walk is offline
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I recall my mother once saying during pregnancy that her doctor would tell her she needed a smoke and drink to deal with the tension. Perhaps modern medicine has advanced but the only thing I see is the fine print has gotten even smaller and I need glasses to read it.
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  #54  
Old 02-25-2019, 09:08 AM
Guitars+gems Guitars+gems is offline
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Originally Posted by RP View Post
Denise: While it's conceivable that adults with depression might self-medicate with cigartettes, it's equally likely that they could self-medicate with sweets (my unfortunate "drug" of choice), alcohol, pot, overspending or any number of other things that might provide a temporary escape from the malaise of depression. I've likely been depressed most of my 68 years and only started taking antidepressant medication when my life hit pretty close to rock bottom in my 40s. Antidepressant medication has allowed me to find the joy of living since then that I didn't even know was possible. BTW I've never smoked a single cigarette in my entire life....
My point was not to equate antidepressants with cigarettes, and I didn't say that people use SSRI's just because cigarettes are too expensive. My point was that smoking was a form of self-medication that is no longer acceptable. Yes, of course other forms of escape are, and always have been, in use. I was talking about a specific activity used for self-soothing, that was more widespread than it is today. I theorize that it was used as a means to deal with depression and the pain of living.

If you had the impression that I was trivializing antidepressants and their ability to improve the quality of life, I'm sorry. That's not what I was saying. My theory is that no longer having the option of smoking to help escape the unhappiness and discomfort of depression, maybe people who may have chosen to smoke previously, are willing to seek medical treatment. Thus, the uptick in numbers that the op mentioned.
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  #55  
Old 02-25-2019, 09:46 AM
Jaden Jaden is offline
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Originally Posted by Guitars+gems View Post
I have wondered if SSRI's are the cigarettes of today. Hear me out.

I'm a boomer. When I was growing up, it seemed like everyone smoked cigarettes. My parents smoked, my friends' parents smoked, the teachers smoked. Smoking was allowed pretty much everywhere; restaurants, airplanes, even movie theaters. Smoking was pretty normal.

Anyone who has ever smoked knows what a mood enhancing drug nicotine can be. It calms, it stimulates, induces feelings of well being, and when ingested by mouth or lungs the effects are immediate. Smoking is orally gratifying, It's comforting. Oh sure, it is addicting but it didn't used to be a hard habit to feed. Cigarettes were cheap, easily available and smoking was socially acceptable.

That was all before. Before we became aware of the dangers. Before we saw images of the black, withered lungs of smokers. Before the surgeon general's warnings. Before we found out about the scheming of the tobacco companies. Before we knew about second-hand smoke. Etc.

I have often thought that all that smoking was self-medication against depression. Many, many, many people used cigarettes to make themselves feel better, as hedges against depression and anxiety. And now they've been pretty much deprived of that option. Yes of course, there are still smokers, but really, it's difficult to smoke these days. My daughter lives in an apartment building where smoking is not permitted anywhere on the property, not even in the private apartments. And I think cigarettes cost 10 or 12 bucks a pack.

In addition to all the pressures of modern life, many of which have been mentioned in this thread, I suspect that loss of tobacco use as a form of self-medication is partly why we're seeing so much diagnosed depression. I mean, life is hard now, but life was even harder a hundred years ago, albeit in different ways. And actually, some of the same ways too. The human struggle hasn't changed all that much really.

So yeah...maybe Prozac is the new Lucky Strike.
I very much agree. The oral gratification from smoking is a psychological reality. Industrialized America post WWII was in full swing with high production and everyone had an ashtray and cigarette handy. Dangerous in the long term but with short term advantages.
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  #56  
Old 02-25-2019, 10:28 AM
Silurian Silurian is offline
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Originally Posted by Guitars+gems View Post
My point was not to equate antidepressants with cigarettes, and I didn't say that people use SSRI's just because cigarettes are too expensive. My point was that smoking was a form of self-medication that is no longer acceptable. Yes, of course other forms of escape are, and always have been, in use. I was talking about a specific activity used for self-soothing, that was more widespread than it is today. I theorize that it was used as a means to deal with depression and the pain of living.

If you had the impression that I was trivializing antidepressants and their ability to improve the quality of life, I'm sorry. That's not what I was saying. My theory is that no longer having the option of smoking to help escape the unhappiness and discomfort of depression, maybe people who may have chosen to smoke previously, are willing to seek medical treatment. Thus, the uptick in numbers that the op mentioned.
If there is a decrease in consumption of X and an increase in consumption of y it does not necessarily mean there is a correlation between them.

Whilst people find smoking comforting, I find the idea that it would be in anyway useful to treat depression hard to believe. (I smoked for 30 years and have also suffered from depression).

To describe this supposed correlation as a "theory" you will need to come up with some data to justify that claim.

Everybody smoked in the 50's but then everyone wore hats in the 50's. I don't think anyone would make a claim that the decrease in hat wearing has anything to to with the take up of anti depressants.
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  #57  
Old 02-25-2019, 10:43 AM
Nyghthawk Nyghthawk is offline
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Sometimes fresh air and exercise are as good as SSRI's for treating depression:

https://www.everydayhealth.com/hs/ma...ps-depression/

https://www.thejournal.ie/mental-hea...46577-Mar2013/

Another option that works for a relative of mine is helping others. When she is assisting one of the ladies at the memory care unit where her mother lives she is happier and has an enhanced sense of self-worth. Does she still take her antidepressant? You bet, but she gets a mood boost from feeling needed.
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  #58  
Old 02-25-2019, 11:18 AM
Guitars+gems Guitars+gems is offline
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Originally Posted by Silurian View Post
If there is a decrease in consumption of X and an increase in consumption of y it does not necessarily mean there is a correlation between them.

Whilst people find smoking comforting, I find the idea that it would be in anyway useful to treat depression hard to believe. (I smoked for 30 years and have also suffered from depression).

To describe this supposed correlation as a "theory" you will need to come up with some data to justify that claim.

Everybody smoked in the 50's but then everyone wore hats in the 50's. I don't think anyone would make a claim that the decrease in hat wearing has anything to to with the take up of anti depressants.
Well, I figured this was an informal, open discussion in the AGF, not PubMed, so it was okay to offer my "theory" - call it a notion or an idea.

But here's a systematic review of research studies done on the subject. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5157710/.

My idea isn't proven in these studies, but it's not disproven either. And apparently, I'm not the only one who thought it was worthy of consideration.

Hats? They don't introduce mood altering chemicals to the body. Never looked good in hats myself, but I smoked for years, and have been working on keeping my head above the waters of sadness most of my life.
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  #59  
Old 02-25-2019, 05:35 PM
Pitar Pitar is offline
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I can't comment on the clinical aspects of depression. I just know it can be medicinally controlled to some extent.

Otherwise, societal and cultural values (establishment) have always distanced young people looking for the freedom to be who they want to be, but don't know quite yet who they are in the overall scheme of life.

Push a kid (who doesn't know what he wants to do) to get a degree and see how quickly he withdraws into himself. Push him to get an education, job, relationship, commitment and/or any of the other responsibilities and tasks people burden themselves with, because they were also pushed to take them on, then understand why depression just might be his traveling companion.

I didn't do that with my sons. I'm pretty stable so I offer that to them as long as they need a place and time to figure out their own directions. Both got their degrees through their own sweat equity and are on paths that will give them the same stability I have. My one suggestion was to stay at their parent's home and get a head start on establishing and building their wealth for retirement.

The world has always been a pretty mad place to live but pre-internet kids have always been sheltered from it. With the state of the union and entire planet at one's fingertips it's no wonder a higher percentage of them withdraw early in life. The violence spread across the various continents pretty much stifles any romantic curiosity for expanding one's horizons.

The media's negative news reporting is pretty much a world slayer all by itself. In China, negative news cannot be over-played like it is in the so-called western countries, and it must be balanced (preferably off-set) with good news. Freedom of speech is only as beneficial as the intellect to use it to the betterment of all.
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  #60  
Old 02-25-2019, 08:22 PM
AmericanEagle AmericanEagle is offline
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Originally Posted by Pitar View Post

Push a kid (who doesn't know what he wants to do) to get a degree and see how quickly he withdraws into himself. Push him to get an education, job, relationship, commitment and/or any of the other responsibilities and tasks people burden themselves with, because they were also pushed to take them on, then understand why depression just might be his traveling companion.
I agree.

Just listen to the lyrics of the song Working Class Hero

When I was young, I was taught to get As in school,
then go straight to college, then get a career, wife, house, and kids.
I did all of that. Now here I am, 30 years later, unemployed, separated from my wife, my stepson wont talk to me anymore, and my own son is quickly drifting away. Oh and yeah, my old house is falling apart and I cant afford to repair it.
And yes, I suffer greatly from depression.

Working Class Hero indeed.
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