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  #1  
Old 11-11-2018, 10:25 AM
Jack Orion Jack Orion is offline
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Default Spend Money on Mics or Save for 'Real' Studio

Hi all,

I've been thinking about recording an album of solo-instrumental pieces in a sort-of John-Fahey-esque style and I'm currently working out the logistics of this.

I've been in 'real' studios before, but I really prefer working at home or in more informal places where I'm not watching the clock - here's my latest 'demo' that I recorded with an Oktava MK012 at the 12th fret, and a Rode NT1a at the bridge



Which I think sounds ok but could be better - I 'processed' the track through some UAD Plugins (Studer A800, LA2a, EMT140 Plate Reverb, and Ampex Tape) and I think it sounds fine for a demo, but I'd like a final recording to sound better.

So I'm trying to work out where to spend my money... do I spend the money on a studio and track, mix and master in the studio or do I buy some better mics, record myself, maybe get it mixed and mastered elsewhere...

I figure for the style I want a couple of good mics (been looking at the beyer mc930) in x/y or ORFT in a decent sounding space would be fine - I could hire a hall for a few day at a low price and not have the 9-5 pressure of being in the studio for the tracking, and then spend a day or two mixing.

Or do you think I'm better off saving my money for getting a proper studio for a few days where all I have to worry about is playing and they handle all the recording duties?
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  #2  
Old 11-11-2018, 10:38 AM
Howard Emerson Howard Emerson is offline
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Jack,
Listen to me, please.....

The sound quality I'm hearing coming through my iMac built in speakers sounds fine, but the REAL point is this: Your playing is really good, and the musical content is really good!

THAT, my friend, is the crux of the matter.

I have heard all manner of recording tests here on this forum, and other places. The majority of what I hear doesn't get me to listen to more than 30 seconds or so because the MUSICAL CONTENT is so weak, or non existent.

As long as YOU are the final arbiter of your ability to 'stand up to the microphones' and put your heart & soul on the line, then the hard part is done.

Make it a clean enough recording that you're able to take it to a good studio for all the editing and mastering.

How many people have listened to the most scratched up 78's just trying to glean one iota of the musicality they're hearing past those scratches?

Content is what it's all about, especially when it's just you and your guitar.

If you play it for someone who's listening for stereo balance, ambient noise, etc, etc...then you've already failed, or they're just not getting what you're doing.

Best regards,
Howard Emerson
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Old 11-11-2018, 10:39 AM
Wengr Wengr is offline
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I don't think the question can be answered, without a lot of information about the space at home that you would use, your willingness to treat it, and the professional studio that you might select.
I have seen multiple professional studios where they really don't have any conception of what makes a good solo fingerstyle record.

Btw. I really like the clip. Very nice playing.
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Old 11-11-2018, 10:46 AM
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Cant answer your question based on my only listening on my IPad, but I can say that is sounds great - really nice..
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Old 11-11-2018, 11:23 AM
runamuck runamuck is offline
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I agree with Howard Emerson.
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Old 11-11-2018, 11:23 AM
GuitarsFromMars GuitarsFromMars is online now
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This is good. The recording is acceptable. You can use what you have and get it mastered in a pro environment. Check with the mastering engineers available, and ask if there is anything missing, then get about doing it.
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Old 11-11-2018, 11:25 AM
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Sounds fine as is. Work a bit more on post recording adjustments - e.g. where to apply high pass filter, possibly some other equalization tweaks, best reverb sound you can get, etc..
There is a trace of recording gear self noise but not enough to really create a problem.
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Old 11-11-2018, 01:04 PM
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Wow Jack!

Nice song, great dynamics, and flows very well…

Now what was your question, again?



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Old 11-11-2018, 03:44 PM
Andy Howell Andy Howell is offline
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Ben - the Beyerdynamic 930s are superb mics for the price. I use mine as a stereo pair but have experimented with using them mid side with a large condenser like your Rode. Very interesting this and might work for solo pieces.

If you decide to go down this route these mics are very natural sounding to my ears and are good on just about anything.
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  #10  
Old 11-11-2018, 04:27 PM
Jack Orion Jack Orion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Emerson View Post
Jack,
Listen to me, please.....

The sound quality I'm hearing coming through my iMac built in speakers sounds fine, but the REAL point is this: Your playing is really good, and the musical content is really good!

THAT, my friend, is the crux of the matter.

I have heard all manner of recording tests here on this forum, and other places. The majority of what I hear doesn't get me to listen to more than 30 seconds or so because the MUSICAL CONTENT is so weak, or non existent.

As long as YOU are the final arbiter of your ability to 'stand up to the microphones' and put your heart & soul on the line, then the hard part is done.

Make it a clean enough recording that you're able to take it to a good studio for all the editing and mastering.

How many people have listened to the most scratched up 78's just trying to glean one iota of the musicality they're hearing past those scratches?

Content is what it's all about, especially when it's just you and your guitar.

If you play it for someone who's listening for stereo balance, ambient noise, etc, etc...then you've already failed, or they're just not getting what you're doing.

Best regards,
Howard Emerson
Thank you Howard - this is one of my favourite posts ever! it is all about the music at the end of the day and I know that I can ignore the shortcomings of recordings if the performance and music is good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarsFromMars View Post
This is good. The recording is acceptable. You can use what you have and get it mastered in a pro environment. Check with the mastering engineers available, and ask if there is anything missing, them get about doing it.
Thanks - this is my thoughts as well - record clean enough, get the performance right, then ask someone with the knowledge to mix/master it

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
Sounds fine as is. Work a bit more on post recording adjustments - e.g. where to apply high pass filter, possibly some other equalization tweaks, best reverb sound you can get, etc..
There is a trace of recording gear self noise but not enough to really create a problem.
Thank you - the Oktava I borrowed was making a bit of noise which did make it on to the recording and there's a few low end thumps from doors being opened and closed next door too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Wow Jack!

Nice song, great dynamics, and flows very well…

Now what was your question, again?



Heheh, thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Howell View Post
Ben - the Beyerdynamic 930s are superb mics for the price. I use mine as a stereo pair but have experimented with using them mid side with a large condenser like your Rode. Very interesting this and might work for solo pieces.

If you decide to go down this route these mics are very natural sounding to my ears and are good on just about anything.
Hi Andy - saw your video on the other forum and that turned me on to the beyerdynamics. My thinking is, for the sort of music I'm doing, those in an xy with a clean recording would be a good place to start from...
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  #11  
Old 11-11-2018, 06:55 PM
MikeMcKee MikeMcKee is offline
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From my personal experience, I had a stereo pair of MK-012's and I now have and use exclusively a stereo pair of Beyer 930's. Absolutely love them.
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  #12  
Old 11-11-2018, 08:14 PM
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Recording equipment can be a deep rabbit whole. Mics, preamps, converters....big money. All the best equipment will not make a great recording if the room is lame

You recording sounds good, so Imthink you are close. could it sound better, always. Bring it in to someone who has an ear for mixing and mastering who can take your tracks and bring them to another level.

You have a nice vibe and cool playing. I enjoyed it.
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Old 11-11-2018, 09:45 PM
DupleMeter DupleMeter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Orion View Post
Hi all,

I've been thinking about recording an album of solo-instrumental pieces in a sort-of John-Fahey-esque style and I'm currently working out the logistics of this.

I've been in 'real' studios before, but I really prefer working at home or in more informal places where I'm not watching the clock - here's my latest 'demo' that I recorded with an Oktava MK012 at the 12th fret, and a Rode NT1a at the bridge



Which I think sounds ok but could be better - I 'processed' the track through some UAD Plugins (Studer A800, LA2a, EMT140 Plate Reverb, and Ampex Tape) and I think it sounds fine for a demo, but I'd like a final recording to sound better.

So I'm trying to work out where to spend my money... do I spend the money on a studio and track, mix and master in the studio or do I buy some better mics, record myself, maybe get it mixed and mastered elsewhere...

I figure for the style I want a couple of good mics (been looking at the beyer mc930) in x/y or ORFT in a decent sounding space would be fine - I could hire a hall for a few day at a low price and not have the 9-5 pressure of being in the studio for the tracking, and then spend a day or two mixing.

Or do you think I'm better off saving my money for getting a proper studio for a few days where all I have to worry about is playing and they handle all the recording duties?
The recording sounds good. Your playing is musical & emotional...very well played. This is completely usable, IMHO, but I'm going to suggest that you spend money on a professional mix engineer. It's the middle ground that most people forget exists for them. You can record at home. Just let someone with a better space, better tools and experience do the mixing to really get the best from your tracks.

If you want to hear what can come of a recording like this one at the hands of an experienced mixer, PM me. I'd be happy to take these raw tracks & do a quick mix (por gratis, of course) to give you a sense of what you could expect. Then, when you record your album tracks, you can find someone you feel comfortable working with to get everything mixed (it absolutely doesn't have to be me).
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  #14  
Old 11-12-2018, 03:37 AM
DoryDavis DoryDavis is offline
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Recording at home, then having it mixed and mastered is the best of both worlds. What little you might gain from the acoustics in a pro studio is well offset by convenience, and the economic advantage of recording at home (you can take as long as you like).
Use effects to record if you like, but don't record the effects. Put them just in your headphones. Decent mics plus common sense recording techinques plus of course your good playing will provide the mix/master studio the raw footage to make into something really special. imho
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  #15  
Old 11-13-2018, 08:27 AM
Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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Sounds fine, Jack.

I'm using Audio-Technica ATH-e70 in-ears on a late model MacBopok Pro right at the moment. The ATH-e70 are relatively new for me and (I think) are a little bright. What guitar? What strings? Mine's a 19870s D28s with mediums, so not quite so bright.

I don't know what your guitar sounds like "in person." It sounds more Taylor than Martin. I think you have a fine recording FOR YOUR PURPOSES.

Nice playing, nice piece.

Yes, you can get different "colors" with different recording setups. Yes, as mentioned, during mastering, I think someone could smooth the brightness, if indeed my ATH-e70 are not lying to me.

Well Done!

Regards,

Ty Ford
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