Looking for Emerald vibrant vs standard weave comparisons

[mountainmaster]

Today I learned from Simon@Caulfield that "vibrant weave" is not really carbon fiber. I found that it is actually texalium, "a fiberglass-based fabric that has a proprietary finish and a thin coating of aluminum on the surface".

This immediately makes me wonder if a vibrant weave Emerald guitar sounds different than a regular CF of the same model.

I know that the former hybrid series from Rainsong had some fiberglass mixed with the CF in order to create a less bright guitar. My Rainsong Smokey is a good example of this.

Does this mean Emerald vibrant weave guitars could have a warmer tone?

Can anyone who owns two Emeralds of the same model with a vibrant and standard weave maybe do a comparison?

[JackDaniel]

I had the same question on that last thread. Maybe emerald uses two layers? Wonder if they'll chime in on this.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by JackDaniel

I had the same question on that last thread. Maybe emerald uses two layers? Wonder if they'll chime in on this.

There are metallized carbon fibre weaves out there - this one, for example:

https://compositeenvisions.com/produ...-high-density/

My Amicus is made of something like this, with a blue metallic weave- Emerald had it as an option in a few different colours for a while.

Unless we hear from Emerald, of course, we won’t know what they actually use for ‘vibrant weave’ - but I’d think (hope?) it unlikely that they’d use fiberglass for the top of a guitar and still call it carbon fibre.

[mountainmaster]

Originally Posted by David Eastwood

There are metallized carbon fibre weaves out there - this one, for example:

https://compositeenvisions.com/produ...-high-density/

My Amicus is made of something like this, with a blue metallic weave- Emerald had it as an option in a few different colours for a while.

Unless we hear from Emerald, of course, we won’t know what they actually use for ‘vibrant weave’ - but I’d think (hope?) it unlikely that they’d use fiberglass for the top of a guitar and still call it carbon fibre.

Good point. And on the same website there is this:

https://compositeenvisions.com/produ...7-23oz-245gsm/

Which is also true carbon fiber. I think this is what Emerald uses. Alistair mentioned that the base color is somewhat yellow-ish which is why they do not offer plain silver without a coating.
That seems to be in line with the shade as produced here by the titanium coloring.

Sorry folks, false alarm. Nothing to see here. Move along, move along.

[casualmusic]

1. Trade journal article about coloured carbon fibre:
https://www.compositesworld.com/amp/...d-carbon-fiber

2. The Alistair Hay intro video said carbon fibre with colour threads.

3. The RainSong CH series used a layer of fibreglass on sides and back, not the soundboard.

Cheers.

[mountainmaster]

Originally Posted by casualmusic

1. Trade journal article about coloured carbon fibre:
https://www.compositesworld.com/amp/...d-carbon-fiber

2. The Alistair Hay intro video said carbon fibre with colour threads.

3. The RainSong CH series used a layer of fibreglass on sides and back, not the soundboard.

Cheers.

Thanks, but 2 was a different option which Emerald no longer offers. The threaded carbon was available in red, green and blue.

Hypetex seems to be the company that managed to produce true colored carbon fiber, including the silver "color".

[DethWshBkr]

My understanding is that the only difference between the vibrant weave and the regular weave is a silver coating on the fibers.
When the instrument is painted with the transparent color the silver shows through which reflects much more light, and "vibrant" color is the result.

I highly doubt there is any tone difference, as Emeralds are not completely regular carbon fiber anyway.


My RainSong is pure carbon fiber, but the Emerald is not.

[David Eastwood]

As luck would have it, Emerald has just posted a video showcasing the vibrant weave. Here's the description from Facebook:

"This week's pick of the week consists of our vibrant weave offerings in the Emerald guitars lineup. The vibrant weave uses our durable and resistant carbon fiber that is then coated with silver material, later to be laced with our signature colourings that make Emerald Guitars stand out amongst the crowd."

The Youtube link for the video that was sent out in email is not working right now, so I won't share it here.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by DethWshBkr

I highly doubt there is any tone difference, as Emeralds are not completely regular carbon fiber anyway.

My RainSong is pure carbon fiber, but the Emerald is not.

What else are they made of?

EDIT: to answer my own question, here’s the answer from Emerald’s FAQs:

What are Emerald Guitars made from?

Emerald Guitars are produced predominantly using various types of high grade carbon fibre bonded together in a matrix of epoxy resin but we also use other structural core materials sandwiched between the carbon layers to create a very lightweight and rigid structure.

The great thing about composite guitar construction is that we have a broad pallet of materials which we can use in various different quantities and layers in the guitar to create many very different tonal properties yet once we create a desired layup for a guitar we can then easily repeat it to give great consistency from guitar to guitar.

I assume that the ‘other structural core materials’ are not specified for proprietary reasons.

[DethWshBkr]

Originally Posted by David Eastwood

What else are they made of?

EDIT: to answer my own question, here’s the answer from Emerald’s FAQs:

What are Emerald Guitars made from?

Emerald Guitars are produced predominantly using various types of high grade carbon fibre bonded together in a matrix of epoxy resin but we also use other structural core materials sandwiched between the carbon layers to create a very lightweight and rigid structure.

The great thing about composite guitar construction is that we have a broad pallet of materials which we can use in various different quantities and layers in the guitar to create many very different tonal properties yet once we create a desired layup for a guitar we can then easily repeat it to give great consistency from guitar to guitar.

I assume that the ‘other structural core materials’ are not specified for proprietary reasons.

No, it's not proprietary. It's pretty neat actually.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by DethWshBkr

No, it's not proprietary. It's pretty neat actually.

Care to enlighten us?

[mountainmaster]

I received the Emerald email newsletter today and apparently Alistair's pick of the week this monday is all about vibrant weave. Unfortunately the video in the link was set to private.

[DethWshBkr]

Well, when I did my install on my StagePro, I had to cut a large hole.








I was astonished at how thick the sides of my X30 were. It is a carbon outer layer, with an inner core, then another carbon layer.
You can clearly see how much thicker the X30 is than my RainSong, which is ONLY carbon.





I did grind away the outer layer of carbon on the piece when I was done, and it was a honeycomb interior core. I don't know the manufacturer, but probably something like this.

https://compositeenvisions.com/produ...core-material/




So basically, on a vibrant weave, the inner layer will be carbon. The core will be the (assumed) Nomex core, then the outer layer will be the silver covered carbon layer. So, I would anticipate zero tone change from such a miniscule change on an essentially cosmetic layer.


The materials on the X30 also explain why it's so heavy. That's a lot of extra resin and material. Also explains the tone difference from the X30 to the RainSong. The RainSong has MUCH more flexibility.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by DethWshBkr

Well, when I did my install on my StagePro, I had to cut a large hole.

Aah, yes - I remember you posting about this after you'd done it.

Thanks for the reminder!

[DethWshBkr]

Originally Posted by David Eastwood

Aah, yes - I remember you posting about this after you'd done it.

Thanks for the reminder!

EASY to forget! Never bad to post it again in a relevant thread though.