Fishman Powertap Earth just blew (us) away at soundcheck

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by RJVB

I probably understood only half of your story but caught all of your enthusiasm



TAP sensor ... is that what the name suggests, a sensor designed to record the percussive things fingerstyle players do to their guitars? If so, could it be that there's the equivalent of a phono pickup inside (presumably a moving coil)?

It's an SBT - Sound board Transducer, like the K&K, etc, but a single bar that is attached to the bridge plate under the saddle line. Like all SBTs, it will pick up the body, including percussive sounds, if you want. I've been meaning to try one for a while, and another discussion here prompted me to finally try it. I don't think it's for me, but it's interesting. The SBT is passive and can be plugged in directly without the Rare Earth (tho it comes with a mini-plug, so you'd have to adapt to use it alone). I haven't tried it, but it seems you could also plug some other SBT, like a Dazzo or K&K into the Rare Earth as well, so there are some choices for experimenters.

Like all pickups, it kind of comes down to taste - you'd have something very similar with the classic Sunrise+Frap/Trance, or the DiMarzio Black Angel mag+SBT, or a K&K+MagMic (a setup I used to use), etc, it just comes down to whether you like the voicing of the specific elements. The Rare Earth has it's own sound, and the SBT sounds a bit different than something like the KK, seems to have less low end, which may appeal to some, and probably makes sense when paired with a Mag.

[stringbound]

Originally Posted by Snorse

That's good to hear! I tried it in a music shop so I'd say your live use experiences with it are more informed and useful information than mine.



It's a killer guitar for sure... even the JM5 blew me away. Many happy miles!

Our guitar department decided against showing the JGM5 in our store. In a direct comparrison of the two, the JGM5 did sound thin and capturing the sound of a laminated body with a microphone isn't a great idea either. Put some money on the side, wait a little longer and go for the JGM10, it's worth the wait.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

It's an SBT - Sound board Transducer, like the K&K, etc, but a single bar that is attached to the bridge plate under the saddle line. Like all SBTs, it will pick up the body, including percussive sounds, if you want. I've been meaning to try one for a while, and another discussion here prompted me to finally try it. I don't think it's for me, but it's interesting. The SBT is passive and can be plugged in directly without the Rare Earth (tho it comes with a mini-plug, so you'd have to adapt to use it alone). I haven't tried it, but it seems you could also plug some other SBT, like a Dazzo or K&K into the Rare Earth as well, so there are some choices for experimenters.

Like all pickups, it kind of comes down to taste - you'd have something very similar with the classic Sunrise+Frap/Trance, or the DiMarzio Black Angel mag+SBT, or a K&K+MagMic (a setup I used to use), etc, it just comes down to whether you like the voicing of the specific elements. The Rare Earth has it's own sound, and the SBT sounds a bit different than something like the KK, seems to have less low end, which may appeal to some, and probably makes sense when paired with a Mag.

Doug, do you mind providing a bit more detail on how the Enhance sensor sounds? I know you mentioned less low end than a K&K but a lot of people cut low end from the K&K so are you talking about a thin sound or one that’s less bass heavy than the K&K? I have been wanting to try a UST / SBT for quite some time and the Powertap infinity checks a lot of boxes. I have just heard people say that the enhance is overly bright and thin. I don’t hear that in demos though. I tend to hear a thick mid range, which is what I would want out of it. Thanks!

[Rick Jones]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Doug, do you mind providing a bit more detail on how the Enhance sensor sounds? I know you mentioned less low end than a K&K but a lot of people cut low end from the K&K so are you talking about a thin sound or one that’s less bass heavy than the K&K? I have been wanting to try a UST / SBT for quite some time and the Powertap infinity checks a lot of boxes. I have just heard people say that the enhance is overly bright and thin. I don’t hear that in demos though. I tend to hear a thick mid range, which is what I would want out of it. Thanks!

Do you mean the TAP sensor? I currently gig two pretty similar guitars, use them both on the same set. One has a K&K/Sunrise the other with a Powertap Earth.

It's not thin, but it's not as warm and fat as the K&K. It's not as fat as the mag portion of the system, but you'd expect that. It has a tighter bottom end but it somehow gets deeper 'thumps' when you hit the body. Hard to explain.

As I have both K&K and Powertap Earth, next Friday (the next gig I have where I'm doing my own sound) I will try and get some videos of both side by side.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Doug, do you mind providing a bit more detail on how the Enhance sensor sounds? I know you mentioned less low end than a K&K but a lot of people cut low end from the K&K so are you talking about a thin sound or one that’s less bass heavy than the K&K? I have been wanting to try a UST / SBT for quite some time and the Powertap infinity checks a lot of boxes. I have just heard people say that the enhance is overly bright and thin. I don’t hear that in demos though. I tend to hear a thick mid range, which is what I would want out of it. Thanks!

I think Rick described what I heard. Just less bass and warmth than I expected compared to say K&Ks or Dazzo's. I don't think the Tap sensor would be very effective by itself. I assume it's tuned that way to complement the Mag pickup. Of course, the Rare Earth also doesn't have the big beefy low end of something like a Sunrise. The Rare Earth was not bad sounding, but still has that electric tinge that I've learned to not care for for me personally. All in all, I had higher hopes for this, tho I'm sure it works well for some, and it would be a handy system for louder gigs. Jon Gomm certainly sounds good with it. I may try the pickup with another SBT at some point, tho the Mag is my primary sticking point. It's not clear to me if the SBT is buffered thru the Mag or not - probably, since there's the blend control. That might cause issues with some other sources, but it'd be interesting to try.

Incidentally, I've already removed mine and managed to totally wreck the Tap sensor in doing so. Very interesting, it's a plastic case/housing with a metal bottom - the part that gets taped/glued to the bridge plate. Inside, on that metal base is a long thin sensor that looks more or less like a standard UST. Just interesting to see what's inside.

IMG_7748.jpg

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Snorse

Do you mean the TAP sensor? I currently gig two pretty similar guitars, use them both on the same set. One has a K&K/Sunrise the other with a Powertap Earth.

It's not thin, but it's not as warm and fat as the K&K. It's not as fat as the mag portion of the system, but you'd expect that. It has a tighter bottom end but it somehow gets deeper 'thumps' when you hit the body. Hard to explain.

As I have both K&K and Powertap Earth, next Friday (the next gig I have where I'm doing my own sound) I will try and get some videos of both side by side.

Very much appreciated! Sound samples would be great.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I think Rick described what I heard. Just less bass and warmth than I expected compared to say K&Ks or Dazzo's. I don't think the Tap sensor would be very effective by itself. I assume it's tuned that way to complement the Mag pickup. Of course, the Rare Earth also doesn't have the big beefy low end of something like a Sunrise. The Rare Earth was not bad sounding, but still has that electric tinge that I've learned to not care for for me personally. All in all, I had higher hopes for this, tho I'm sure it works well for some, and it would be a handy system for louder gigs. Jon Gomm certainly sounds good with it. I may try the pickup with another SBT at some point, tho the Mag is my primary sticking point. It's not clear to me if the SBT is buffered thru the Mag or not - probably, since there's the blend control. That might cause issues with some other sources, but it'd be interesting to try.

Incidentally, I've already removed mine and managed to totally wreck the Tap sensor in doing so. Very interesting, it's a plastic case/housing with a metal bottom - the part that gets taped/glued to the bridge plate. Inside, on that metal base is a long thin sensor that looks more or less like a standard UST. Just interesting to see what's inside.

Attachment 78405

It definitely dos look like a standard UST. Although different, Schatten uses a similar long transducer for their HFN. Obviously it's more elevated but the approach is similar.

That was kind of my worry with the PowerTap Infinity though. I often find, for whatever reason, that UST's in my Taylor sound thin. I have always though that a UST would sound pretty much identical in any guitar, but not for me. I kind of wanted a SBT to fatten the sound/add in a bit of midrange/natural tone. I guess what I could always do is get the system and try something like a Dazzo or K&K in place of the Enhance.

[Rick Jones]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Very much appreciated! Sound samples would be great.

Ok, please excuse my fumbled playing and waffling on for 16 minutes here, but I tried to include all the info I could in the comparison. I've never made this kind of video before. It's worth watching to the end if you can bear it, because I try and go through anything we've discussed on the thread.

Both guitars are spruce over rosewood, made in Ireland by Avalon guitars, but one is super-jumbo and the other small-jumbo sized. The comparison was as thorough as I could get it, but bear in mind that you are hearing the guitar in the mix acoustically too, as it's closer to the zoom unit I was recording into.