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Old 01-04-2021, 05:24 PM
Tadmcd Tadmcd is offline
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i filed today for a copyright for a song i wrote. interesting process, kinda pricey.

wth, once it's approved, me'n ray wylie or robert earl keene or willy are gonna make bank. no doubt waylon and the man in black are rollin' in their graves, regretting their chance to cover it. goes without saying john prine would have snapped it up in an instant and Kris woulda grabbed a clean shirt when he played it.

ah well, a boy can dream...
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Old 01-04-2021, 08:29 PM
TJE TJE is offline
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🤣 some songs played on the radio are horrible! I’m sure you have a fine song!
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Old 01-04-2021, 09:47 PM
Deliberate1 Deliberate1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadmcd View Post
wth, once it's approved, me'n ray wylie or robert earl keene or willy are gonna make bank. no doubt waylon and the man in black are rollin' in their graves, regretting their chance to cover it. goes without saying john prine would have snapped it up in an instant and Kris woulda grabbed a clean shirt when he played it.

ah well, a boy can dream...
Is that a taste of the song lyrics?
I like it.
David
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Old 01-05-2021, 05:01 AM
Tadmcd Tadmcd is offline
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Originally Posted by Deliberate1 View Post
Is that a taste of the song lyrics?
I like it.
David
well, a "new" song did come to mind when i wrote that post, but that's not what i filed. i think i'll call the "new" song:

I'm Wearin' My Jammies to the Grammys
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Old 01-05-2021, 09:29 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadmcd View Post
i filed today for a copyright for a song i wrote. interesting process, kinda pricey.
What do you actually get for your money? Do they track covers, set up search bots on social media?
Do you get legal advice or support if anyone attempts to cover it without getting a license?
Is any kind of publishing deal involved?

I'm asking because I know you have copyright in any song automatically as soon as you've written it. The only problem is proving priority (date of origin). There are may ways if doing that - such as simply posting it online, because the upload is dated. (You could also keep a file copy on hard disk, making sure you never edit it of course. That's equivalent to the old pre-internet method of posting yourself the manuscript with an official proof of postage date.)

Naturally anyone who finds it could then steal it, but your priority is easily proved - provided the original upload is not removed.

Of course, I understand the nervousness about exposing your creations in public in that way. Even if you know you can prove your originality, there's still an expensive and stressful legal process to go through. Hence my questions about what you pay for when you register a copyright.
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Old 01-05-2021, 12:14 PM
Tadmcd Tadmcd is offline
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near as i can tell, after reading all the posts on here (just search: "copyright" and you'll find a very informative thread all about the ins/outs...you may have also been on that one, but i can't remember) and going through the "process" with the guvs, i'm not sure it provides much of anything.

sure, i guess if someone recorded it or created some derivative work from it and didn't pay some sort of fee, i could try to get some compensation, but i tend to agree with you, it's just sort of prima facie evidence of ownership.

also, i didn't load a recording...just claimed lyrics, music, and arrangement. to be honest, i was also motivated to give a friend a piece of it; she's been instrumental (pun intended) in my guitar babysteps and she [patiently] helped me suss out the beginnings of a song from my lyrics. i ended up changing a lot, but it will be cool to send her a copy of the copyright with her name on it some day (if it all works out, of course).
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Old 01-06-2021, 08:56 PM
rmoretti49 rmoretti49 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadmcd View Post
also, i didn't load a recording...just claimed lyrics, music, and arrangement. to be honest, i was also motivated to give a friend a piece of it; she's been instrumental (pun intended) in my guitar babysteps and she [patiently] helped me suss out the beginnings of a song from my lyrics. i ended up changing a lot, but it will be cool to send her a copy of the copyright with her name on it some day (if it all works out, of course).
What an incredibly kind and thoughtful thing for you to do for her!
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Old 01-06-2021, 09:58 PM
TeleBluesMan TeleBluesMan is offline
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Registering your copyright provides more than just evidence of ownership. A copyright owner cannot file a lawsuit to enforce/protect its copyrights until the U.S. Copyright Office has issued a registration. Additionally, when copyrights are registered prior to infringement (or within three months after publication of the work), a copyright owner becomes eligible for an award of statutory damages.

Last edited by TeleBluesMan; 01-07-2021 at 12:06 AM.
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  #9  
Old 01-07-2021, 03:45 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeleBluesMan View Post
Registering your copyright provides more than just evidence of ownership. A copyright owner cannot file a lawsuit to enforce/protect its copyrights until the U.S. Copyright Office has issued a registration.
OK thanks, that makes sense. Better to have the registration in place first than try and organise it later! (I'm in the UK, so different rules would apply, but tbh I'm not sure what they are here either!)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeleBluesMan View Post
Additionally, when copyrights are registered prior to infringement (or within three months after publication of the work), a copyright owner becomes eligible for an award of statutory damages.
Again, that sounds like a sensible guarantee, rather than have to organise the process yourself from scratch.
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  #10  
Old 01-08-2021, 12:09 PM
k_russell k_russell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadmcd View Post
i filed today for a copyright for a song i wrote. interesting process, kinda pricey.

wth, once it's approved, me'n ray wylie or robert earl keene or willy are gonna make bank. no doubt waylon and the man in black are rollin' in their graves, regretting their chance to cover it. goes without saying john prine would have snapped it up in an instant and Kris woulda grabbed a clean shirt when he played it.

ah well, a boy can dream...
How many attempts did you make at a password on the website?
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Old 01-08-2021, 12:53 PM
Tadmcd Tadmcd is offline
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lol.

don't remember the number of attempts and truthfully, if my browser forgets the password, i'm toast because i don't remember it.
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Old 01-08-2021, 03:32 PM
TBman TBman is offline
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I applied and paid for a copyright a year ago and never received my certificate.
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  #13  
Old 01-08-2021, 08:12 PM
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KevWind KevWind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
What do you actually get for your money? Do they track covers, set up search bots on social media?
Do you get legal advice or support if anyone attempts to cover it without getting a license?
Is any kind of publishing deal involved?
What "you get for your money" is a certificate of registration with the US Copy Tight Office .That is considered legal proof that you filed for registration on a given Date and are claiming ownership of the rights . Understand it is not proof of ownership. Only proof of when you claimed ownership.

As to your other questions. No to all

In general for any interested :::
Perhaps the best way to think about statutory copyright protection, and registration is like Car insurance. It provides a set of criteria for compensation if infringement/or accident happens. It does not prevent accident/or infringement from happening. (with the caveat) that Copyright statutes also allows for monetary compensation from the legal use of copyrighted material Which is handled through PRO's et.al. or directly from the commercial users , Ans not the US Copyright office.


Quote:
I'm asking because I know you have copyright in any song automatically as soon as you've written it.
Actually it depends on what you mean by "written it " Because you cannot copyright an idea, so legally you have copyright to your original work as soon as you affix it to a "tangible medium of expression" . So yes that would include "written" on paper, or recorded to a playable medium like record , tape, Cd, USB drive or now also a digital music file.


Quote:
The only problem is proving priority (date of origin). There are may ways if doing that - such as simply posting it online, because the upload is dated.
Actually posting online is considered publishing and could be considered proof of date of publishing (not origin) . And does not establish ownership of copyright.

Quote:
(You could also keep a file copy on hard disk, making sure you never edit it of course. That's equivalent to the old pre-internet method of posting yourself the manuscript with an official proof of postage date.)
Unfortunately the "poor mans copyright" is largely myth. The only thing it possibly establishes is the date you performed the action and that you had possession at the time you performed the action. BUT again does nothing to legally establish ownership of the copyright.

Quote:
Naturally anyone who finds it could then steal it, but your priority is easily proved - provided the original upload is not removed.
Not sure what you mean by (your "priority" is easily proved) again the only thing proved is the date of upload nothing more.



You (and any interested) might want to check out this article from the American Bar Association

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/intellectual_property_law/publications/landslide/2018-19/july-august/debunking-copyright-myths/#:~:text=Myth%20%233%3A%20Registration%20Isn't%20N ecessary,-Unlike%20the%20first&text=Under%20current%20law%2C %20registration%20with,created%20after%20January%2 01%2C%201978.&text=An%20author%20cannot%20bring%20 a,registration%20from%20the%20Copyright%20Office.
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Last edited by KevWind; 01-08-2021 at 08:50 PM.
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  #14  
Old 01-08-2021, 09:04 PM
jazzereh jazzereh is offline
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There is so much misinformation around about copyright and I've always been told that as soon as a work is created, the composer owns the copyright and you don't need to pay to acquire that ownership. I'm a member of SOCAN and I figure anyone writing music should be a member of their national rights organization and anything I write is listed with SOCAN.

I do not know how copyright laws differ between Canada and the USA but here's a summary for Canadian music from the Canadian Songwriters Assoc:

"Copyright is automatically acquired from the moment of creation of a work, provided that the work meets these three criteria: 1) the work must be original;2) it must be fixed in a somewhat permanent material form; and 3) the author must meet the qualified person requirements set out in the Copyright Act. A qualified person includes Canadian citizens and persons ordinarily resident in Canada. “Original” means that: 1) the work can’t be a substantial copy of another copyright protected work; and 2) the work must have been created by exercising “skill and judgement”, meaning it can’t be the product of a purely mindless mechanical exercise. See also 5.1,(qualified persons), 2.2. (originality), 2.3 (fixation) and 3.1 (registration).

The threshold test for determining whether there is an original work for copyright purposes is relatively low. The work has to be “non-trivial”, meaning it must meet a minimal level of creativity. For example, you can’t change two notes in a pre-existing song and claim it is a new and original work. However, many musical compositions follow a similar popular structure and rhythmic pattern and western music is bound by the limits of the 12 notes of the chromatic scale but the threshold can still be met- musical works needn’t be novel to acquire copyright protection.

There is no requirement that one register one’s copyright in order to acquire copyright. Copyright is automatically acquired from the moment of creation of an original work. That being said, many regard it prudent to register, copyright to their work with the Copyright Office as proof of ownership."

The above quote is from - http://www.songwriters.ca/copyright101.aspx
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Old 02-25-2021, 07:14 AM
Tadmcd Tadmcd is offline
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i rec'd today a response from the copyright folks and i am unanimously disappointed:


We are writing because your application includes a claim to copyright in lyrics and music, but the music you sent consists only of chord symbols. These chord symbols alone do not represent enough original authorship to support a copyright claim.

When a claim includes music, the copy deposited must contain at least a minimum amount of original musical expression. Chord symbols do not meet this requirement when there are only a few of them, when they are repetitious, or when they represent only standard harmonies.

Perhaps these words are intended to be sung to a melody. If you would like to submit a copy containing the melody, please let us know and we will give you instructions for sending this material. Or, if you want us to complete registration using the present copy, please give us permission to remove the term “music” from the registration record, as well as the co-author of only the music.


given my remarkable lack of musical chops and any hope of complying with the requirements of the United States Copyright Office, this ends the dream of surprising my friend at a relatively low cost. i am verklempt.

as an aside, i don't understand why chords, repetitious or otherwise, don't represent "music," especially given the fact that about 99.99999% of the stuff i download to play contains nothing more than lyrics and chords. and, in re "only a few of them," i assume the copyright folks would be surprised to hear the expression, "three chords and the truth."

this, my friends, is a traveshamockery!
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