Why do some high-end guitars have holes in their sides?

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by ManyMartinMan

Many top builders are installing sound ports but it remains to be seen how long it will be a "thing". Fad or future? I guess we'll see.

Soundports are beneficial to enough players that I think they’re going to be around a while, at least on higher end instruments. Fads generally occur when there’s a mystique or perceived benefit to something that really isn’t all that great - like brass nuts and saddles on acoustic guitars. Those appurtenances had their moment in the late 70’s and early 80’s, and for two or three years I had other guitarists telling me how great brass appointments were and how I should get those installed on my Mossman if I wanted it to sound “better.”

But they weren’t all that great, not really, and sooner rather than later that sank in with enough players that the brass appointments fad ran its course and petered out. (I didn’t have to pull any brass saddles or nuts off my guitars because I hadn’t liked the way they sounded on other people’s guitars, so I never inflicted them on mine.)

Soundports are different: they offer genuine advantages to those players who have them. There’s nothing imaginary about that.


whm

[ManyMartinMan]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

Soundports are beneficial to enough players that I think they’re going to be around a while, at least on higher end instruments. ...Soundports are different: they offer genuine advantages to those players who have them. There’s nothing imaginary about that.

I appreciate your beliefs on sound ports. I, and many other guitarists I know, see no inherent benefit to them. I'm happy for your if you perceive an advantage but in over 30 years of making my living from playing guitar and music there is no benefit or advantage - to me. For those who believe there is an advantage, whatever that might be, that's great. It does not make it so, any more than my feeling that they are of no significant consequence, make it not. They are simply unproven, and I might say, unprovable beliefs. In fact, I believe that if they are of such benefit they should appear across the board in all instruments because of their "genuine advantages". In higher and lower end instruments.

I'm in the camp of many (if not most) over the past hundreds of years, who did and do fine without them. For me, when something pops up and becomes popular, with no particular reason, so quickly, until I've seen historical evidence which only occurs with time, it's a fad. As I stated in my previous post, I have no strong feeling against them but I find no benefit to them. Again, I wouldn't have one installed and I wouldn't deny myself a top-shelf guitar because it has one. If there was some inherent benefit to them, I believe, they would be of consistent (tested) size, shape, location and quantity. They are not.

[perttime]

The one that I tried in a noisy room was a small bodied guitar. The hole was in the lower bout and shaped like the builder's logo. It has been a while, so I'm not sure if it was this particular guitar from their site:



At least the one that I tried also had birch back and sides, tinted with a bright color. The builder demonstrated the effect of the hole by placing a card over the hole while I was playing.

[Wade Hampton]

ManyMartinMan, this is kind of silly that I’m the one defending soundports here; if you read my first post in this thread you’ll find that I’m not actually a soundport user myself. But for players who use a light touch and for fingerstyle players they’re a boon, for all the reasons that so many of them have listed in all the many posts in this thread so far.

Obviously I can’t make you respect the opinions and experiences of these other players if you’re not inclined to do so. But soundports are not a gimmick and I doubt that they’ll evaporate like a mirage on a hot day anytime soon, whether you or I have a personal use for them or not.

But do yourself a favor and go back and reread the posts in this thread written by those folks who do find soundports useful. To dismiss the experiences of all those players just because neither you or your friends have any use for soundports is more than a little bit shortsighted.


Wade Hampton Miller

[Wolfram]

Originally Posted by ManyMartinMan

I appreciate your beliefs on sound ports. I, and many other guitarists I know, see no inherent benefit to them. I'm happy for your if you perceive an advantage but in over 30 years of making my living from playing guitar and music there is no benefit or advantage - to me. For those who believe there is an advantage, whatever that might be, that's great. It does not make it so, any more than my feeling that they are of no significant consequence, make it not. They are simply unproven, and I might say, unprovable beliefs.

I have to take issue with your statement that they are unproven and unprovable beliefs. The soundport, of all the myriad contributions to tone that we discuss here - back/side/fingerboard/bridge woods, nut/saddle/bridgepin materials etc. - is one of the least subjective. Take a guitar with a soundport and you can hear exactly what it would sound like without one - just cover it up.

All I can guarantee is that there will be a difference. You might not like that difference or see it as a benefit (and many players I know do not; just as many swear by them), but the difference is there and provable. There have even been studies done on the effect, both for the player and the listener [https://www.liutaiomottola.com/research/ports.htm].

As Tim said above, I know many builders design their guitars around the inclusion of a soundport (i.e. not putting one in as an afterthought); some builders will not build guitars with them. To each his own, with builders and players - that's what makes guitars all the more fun!

Cheers,
David

[Tim McKnight]

Originally Posted by ManyMartinMan

in over 30 years of making my living from playing guitar and music there is no benefit or advantage - to me.

They are simply unproven, and I might say, unprovable beliefs. In fact, I believe that if they are of such benefit they should appear across the board in all instruments because of their "genuine advantages".

In your >30 years of making your living from playing guitar what are your thoughts on using a monitor while on stage? Are you a proponent of monitors and do you see them as a necessity or not?

Please expound on your statement that they are "unproven".

Have you played an acoustic guitar with a side sound port? Or do you just dislike the aesthetics of them? If you have played an acoustic with a side sound port was it installed as an afterthought?

[der Geist]

Originally Posted by guitar george

If you can hear what everyone else is hearing, a soundport might be a great idea to have while practicing. While performing you might not need or want a soundport. In that case a soundport with a door might be a good idea.

Attachment 19517

This looks great! I wouldnt mind having this on one of mine.

[ManyMartinMan]

Originally Posted by Tim McKnight

In your >30 years of making your living from playing guitar what are your thoughts on using a monitor while on stage? ...
Have you played an acoustic guitar with a side sound port? Or do you just dislike the aesthetics of them? ..

Monitor? Not relative to this conversation. However, venue's frequently dictate what equipment can be, and can not be brought in, therefore I've used every type of "monitor" made - whether I like them or not. A venue with hundreds or thousands of individuals make monitors of some type a necessity. No sound port would change or help with that.

The other questions were answered in my posts. I own a guitar with sound port so I make no opinion uninformed. Just because sound ports exist doesn't mean they have benefit. I find no benefit. If you do, that's your opinion and perfectly fine. Please read all of my posts herein, then ask any question you have. You will see every statement (including my signature) clearly says these are my opinions and you are welcome to yours.

[stringjunky]

Originally Posted by ManyMartinMan

I appreciate your beliefs on sound ports. I, and many other guitarists I know, see no inherent benefit to them. I'm happy for your if you perceive an advantage but in over 30 years of making my living from playing guitar and music there is no benefit or advantage - to me. For those who believe there is an advantage, whatever that might be, that's great. It does not make it so, any more than my feeling that they are of no significant consequence, make it not. They are simply unproven, and I might say, unprovable beliefs. In fact, I believe that if they are of such benefit they should appear across the board in all instruments because of their "genuine advantages". In higher and lower end instruments.

I'm in the camp of many (if not most) over the past hundreds of years, who did and do fine without them. For me, when something pops up and becomes popular, with no particular reason, so quickly, until I've seen historical evidence which only occurs with time, it's a fad. As I stated in my previous post, I have no strong feeling against them but I find no benefit to them. Again, I wouldn't have one installed and I wouldn't deny myself a top-shelf guitar because it has one. If there was some inherent benefit to them, I believe, they would be of consistent (tested) size, shape, location and quantity. They are not.

All one needs to do is get a microphone on a recording meter and measure the level on top, port closed and open. If the results are different, that is an objective fact.

[ManyMartinMan]

"I have no strong feeling against them but I find no benefit to them."

Originally Posted by stringjunky2

All one needs to do is get a microphone on a recording meter and measure the level on top, port closed and open. If the results are different, that is an objective fact.

What about this do you not understand? An effect does not a benefit make. That is pretty simple. In no post (of too many now) have I said anything negative about sound ports. I simply find no benefit to me for them. Has this forum ceased to accept opinion as valid? Just post your opinion and leave other's to do the same.

[Rosewood99]

Originally Posted by ManyMartinMan

"I have no strong feeling against them but I find no benefit to them."



What about this do you not understand? An effect does not a benefit make. That is pretty simple. In no post (of too many now) have I said anything negative about sound ports. I simply find no benefit to me for them. Has this forum ceased to accept opinion as valid? Just post your opinion and leave other's to do the same.

No, but many of your words imply negative feelings about sound ports, even when you try to qualify it by saying you find no benefit.

[ManyMartinMan]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

No, but many of your words imply negative feelings about sound ports, even when you try to qualify it by saying you find no benefit.

Paul, if I choose to, am I allowed to have negative feelings herein? I don't support or reject sound ports but, have we lost the ability here to have negative feelings or dissenting opinions about topics? Let me know what the new rules are so I don't violate anyone's sensitivity. I know it's the new millennial but people are still allowed to disagree about things - I think.

[ManyMartinMan]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

No, but many of your words imply negative feelings about sound ports, even when you try to qualify it by saying you find no benefit.

Additionally, I qualify my statements by making sure all of them clearly state my opinion (which should be obvious on an opinion forum) which validates anything not controverted by scientific fact - such as the world is round. Including the fact that you disagree which you are welcome to without calling out other member's opinion.

[stringjunky]

Originally Posted by ManyMartinMan

"I have no strong feeling against them but I find no benefit to them."



What about this do you not understand? An effect does not a benefit make. That is pretty simple. In no post (of too many now) have I said anything negative about sound ports. I simply find no benefit to me for them. Has this forum ceased to accept opinion as valid? Just post your opinion and leave other's to do the same.

But you are saying they are unproven (as well as loading it with dislike of them. I'm addressing the "unproven" part of your statement... that's not opinion.

[ManyMartinMan]

Originally Posted by stringjunky2

But you are saying they are unproven (as well as loading it with dislike of them. I'm addressing the "unproven" part of your statement... that's not opinion.

Unproven benefit. There is none to me.