Is this crosspicking?

[Rick Jones]

Ignore the dodgy singing here, but on this (rough) iphone clip would you call what I was doing crosspicking? Someone commented 'nice crosspicking' on a video of me playing the same song that went out on an instagram live from an audience member.

This sort of strum-pattern is what I tend to do instinctively when the bass notes have to lead the chords around, or I'm playing solo and need to fill up the sound. If I had someone else playing with me I'd drop most of the treble-side picking and make it sparser.

But to my mind crosspicking would be a much more deliberate and accurate style of playing, more related to bluegrass, and something I was planning on making an effort to try and learn properly in the future.

[BlueStarfish]

Nice playing!

I am reminded of an old (and probably not very funny) joke. If you ask someone outside the US “who is a Yankee” they will say an American.

If you ask someone in the US living in the south the same question they will say “somebody who lives north of the Mason Dixon line.”

If you ask some in Pennsylvania the same question they will say “somebody who lives in New England.”

If you ask somebody in Boston the same question they will say “somebody who lives in Vermont.’

If you ask somebody in Vermont the same question they will say “somebody who lives in the country.”

If you ask somebody in the Vermont country the same question they will say “somebody who still has an outhouse.”

Bringing us back to your question … the term crosspicking is used broadly by many folks, to mean a variety of different things. And I think it’s ok to say they are all right (in their contexts).

To a bluegrass traditionalist, crosspicking means a very specific 3-against-2 roll pattern, which sonically imitates the 3-finger roll of Scruggs-style banjo. The purest of pure will insist it be played with a DDU picking pattern (even though many excellent players use strict alternate picking and sound pretty good to me). The technique is stereotypically used to “fill out” the sound on a solo when the melody note lingers for more than a few beats on a single note.

More progressive bluegrass players would include additional picking and roll forms under the term. For example Norm Blake used a lot of 2-note and 4-note roll patterns, but not so much the 3-note pattern. He mostly played those roll patters with strict alternate picking, so it doesn’t have the 3-against-2 roll sound. But still sounds pretty good to me!

And players that maybe play across genres might use the term to simply describe playing patterns where one has to skip strings, yet still use strict alternate picking (which is technically difficult at high speeds). In country or Americana or pop, the sound can end up much like what you played. Or instead, something like “fancy arpeggiated chords” played more as a rhythm or fill pattern. It’s all good!

[Rick Jones]

Originally Posted by BlueStarfish

Nice playing!

I am reminded of an old (and probably not very funny) joke. If you ask someone outside the US “who is a Yankee” they will say an American.

If you ask someone in the US living in the south the same question they will say “somebody who lives north of the Mason Dixon line.”

If you ask some in Pennsylvania the same question they will say “somebody who lives in New England.”

If you ask somebody in Boston the same question they will say “somebody who lives in Vermont.’

If you ask somebody in Vermont the same question they will say “somebody who lives in the country.”

If you ask somebody in the Vermont country the same question they will say “somebody who still has an outhouse.”

Bringing us back to your question … the term crosspicking is used broadly by many folks, to mean a variety of different things. And I think it’s ok to say they are all right (in their contexts).

To a bluegrass traditionalist, crosspicking means a very specific 3-against-2 roll pattern, which sonically imitates the 3-finger roll of Scruggs-style banjo. The purest of pure will insist it be played with a DDU picking pattern (even though many excellent players use strict alternate picking and sound pretty good to me). The technique is stereotypically used to “fill out” the sound on a solo when the melody note lingers for more than a few beats on a single note.

More progressive bluegrass players would include additional picking and roll forms under the term. For example Norm Blake used a lot of 2-note and 4-note roll patterns, but not so much the 3-note pattern. He mostly played those roll patters with strict alternate picking, so it doesn’t have the 3-against-2 roll sound. But still sounds pretty good to me!

And players that maybe play across genres might use the term to simply describe playing patterns where one has to skip strings, yet still use strict alternate picking (which is technically difficult at high speeds). In country or Americana or pop, the sound can end up much like what you played. Or instead, something like “fancy arpeggiated chords” played more as a rhythm or fill pattern. It’s all good!

Thanks, I am no less confused, but definitely more informed The confusion is all my own, and I see what you mean about the naming of techniques (or definitions, I do like your analogy, being a Brit to whom a 'Yankee' was 'an American' until I lived in GA for a while!).

I pretty much switch off to what my hands are doing, but somehow always hit the string that I intend to.... honest... Ok, not always, but almost always. I guess I may call it faux-crosspicking from now on.

Appreciate the kind words and information, thank you!

[sinistral]

This is an old video that I came across recently. It discussed crosspicking techniques beginning around 7:00 in, including the D-D-U technique demonstrated by Brad Davis.



Just based on this video and BlueStarfish’s description, I wouldn’t call your technique crosspicking. It’s a great sounding technique, more like pulling notes out of strummed chords, but not sure if it has a name.

[BlueStarfish]

Warning: going way deep into guitar nerdery here …

When I mentioned DDU, I should have also named George Shuffler, as it’s his version of DDU that I believe is the oldest and narrowest definition of cross picking. You can search for his videos on YouTube, there is one where he actually demos the technique in slow motion pretty clearly. That’s the version of crosspicking that impersonates the Scruggs-style three-finger banjo roll.

Brad Davis also uses a DDU technique, but to a completely different musical effect. On his website he actually calls himself “Brad Davis the Shredder.” Brad has a few instructional videos on YouTube, and in one of them I recall that he said his playing technique was inspired by Eddie Van Halen. Doesn’t sound or look very much at all like a Doc Watson or Molly Tuttle doing crosspicking. Doc and Molly both use (or used, for Doc) more traditional strict alternate picking.

Further musing … Brad plays banjo too … a 6-string banjo which he plays with a flatpick. Doesn’t sound anything like Scruggs (but does sound pretty good). Go figure …

Anyways … if some of your audience tell you “nice crosspicking” … then from their perspective that’s exactly what it is so well done

[Rick Jones]

Originally Posted by sinistral

This is an old video that I came across recently. It discussed crosspicking techniques beginning around 7:00 in, including the D-D-U technique demonstrated by Brad Davis.



Just based on this video and BlueStarfish’s description, I wouldn’t call your technique crosspicking. It’s a great sounding technique, more like pulling notes out of strummed chords, but not sure if it has a name.

Great video, thank you — I think I’m going to start trying to piece that stuff together too, and see what I can incorporate.

Strumming with accented notes is exactly how I think of that thing I’ve been doing. It’s entirely instinctive, but… goofing around with it tonight and I can pretty much pull out any combination of notes I want as long as they’re in the ‘cluster’ of the chord or bass note I’m rooted in. It just takes me being more mindful of what I want to accent. With a bit of practice I think I can make it sound pretty cool.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Snorse

Ignore the dodgy singing here, but on this (rough) iphone clip would you call what I was doing crosspicking? Someone commented 'nice crosspicking' on a video of me playing the same song that went out on an instagram live from an audience member.

This sort of strum-pattern is what I tend to do instinctively when the bass notes have to lead the chords around, or I'm playing solo and need to fill up the sound. If I had someone else playing with me I'd drop most of the treble-side picking and make it sparser.

But to my mind crosspicking would be a much more deliberate and accurate style of playing, more related to bluegrass, and something I was planning on making an effort to try and learn properly in the future.

There are brief cross-picking-type spurts of notes but I'd term what you're doing in this song as a bass/chordal/melody mix and a wonderful one at that! What you're doing is better for a solo act as it fills out the music whether for a strict instrumental or for backing a song's vocal. Crosspicking usually sounds best with at least another guitar, or a bass, or drumming providing a rhythmic backwash.

[Rick Jones]

Originally Posted by BlueStarfish

Warning: going way deep into guitar nerdery here …

When I mentioned DDU, I should have also named George Shuffler, as it’s his version of DDU that I believe is the oldest and narrowest definition of cross picking. You can search for his videos on YouTube, there is one where he actually demos the technique in slow motion pretty clearly. That’s the version of crosspicking that impersonates the Scruggs-style three-finger banjo roll.

Brad Davis also uses a DDU technique, but to a completely different musical effect. On his website he actually calls himself “Brad Davis the Shredder.” Brad has a few instructional videos on YouTube, and in one of them I recall that he said his playing technique was inspired by Eddie Van Halen. Doesn’t sound or look very much at all like a Doc Watson or Molly Tuttle doing crosspicking. Doc and Molly both use (or used, for Doc) more traditional strict alternate picking.

Further musing … Brad plays banjo too … a 6-string banjo which he plays with a flatpick. Doesn’t sound anything like Scruggs (but does sound pretty good). Go figure …

Anyways … if some of your audience tell you “nice crosspicking” … then from their perspective that’s exactly what it is so well done

Bring on the nerdery my friend, I love it!

I’ve seen Brad Davis on a Takamine stand at an expo, awesome picking and a nice guy! Very different to Doc for sure, and I can hear the banjo influence in the more traditionally-rooted pickers.

One of my influences (and a guy I’ve opened for on many occasions) is an Aussie guitarist called Jeff Lang. He absolutely rips out banjo style patterns on guitar with his fingers. I think part of how I developed what I do is in a poor-man’s version attempt at getting the effect he has on a song of his called ‘the road is not your only friend’. It’s turned out being entirely different but I think it sprung from an attempt to impersonate another guitarist who himself was attempting to copy old banjo players! 😂