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Old 06-14-2018, 04:01 PM
Guitars+gems Guitars+gems is offline
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Default Power and moveable chords questions

Ok, I have 2 questions:

1). Regarding power chords: they are made of the 1st and 5th notes of a triad, or I guess just the 1st and 5th degrees of a scale. The E power chord is 022xxx. If you play 079900, which is still just E's and B's and the root is on the most bass string, is that still a power chord? Or is it weakened by the inclusion of the treble strings? In other words, is the power chord defined by its sound as well as the notes included?

2.) Regarding moveable chords: The E uses all 6 strings, open and fretted. If you move the 3 fretted notes up one fret you can play an F but can't include the open strings. So you have to barre across the first fret to use all the strings. Are moveable chords defined by chord forms that can be played the same way, fretted notes and open strings, in several places on the fretboard? So the E form barre is moveable but not the open E? Is that right?
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  #2  
Old 06-14-2018, 04:29 PM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitars+gems View Post
Ok, I have 2 questions:

1). Regarding power chords: they are made of the 1st and 5th notes of a triad, or I guess just the 1st and 5th degrees of a scale. The E power chord is 022xxx. If you play 079900, which is still just E's and B's and the root is on the most bass string, is that still a power chord? Or is it weakened by the inclusion of the treble strings? In other words, is the power chord defined by its sound as well as the notes included?
Well, its sound is defined by the notes included - and those are roots and 5ths . You can double up the root and 5th any amount you like, it's still a power chord.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitars+gems View Post
2.) Regarding moveable chords: The E uses all 6 strings, open and fretted. If you move the 3 fretted notes up one fret you can play an F but can't include the open strings. So you have to barre across the first fret to use all the strings. Are moveable chords defined by chord forms that can be played the same way, fretted notes and open strings, in several places on the fretboard? So the E form barre is moveable but not the open E? Is that right?
Yes. In fact, all five open major chord shapes can be converted into movable shapes, by re-fingering, using the index to barre where the open strings would be. That's the basis of the CAGED system, so-called because those 5 shapes overlap up the neck in that order, for each of the 12 major chords. Here's all the shapes for a C chord:
x-3-2-0-1-0 = C shape
3-3-5-5-5-3 = A shape
8-7-5-5-5-8 = G shape
8-10-10-9-8-8 = E shape
x-10-10-12-13-12 = D shape
x-15-14-12-13-12 = C shape again (and so on)
- all C chords in terms of sound - because they all contain the notes C-E-G in various permutations.

BTW, you can move open chord shapes up and leave the open strings ringing, but you get more complicated (and interesting) chords. E.g., 0-5-5-3-0-0 is a kind of Em7. 0-5-4-0-3-0 is a kind of Em9. 0-0-5-5-5-0 is a kind of Am7.
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Old 06-14-2018, 06:41 PM
1neeto 1neeto is offline
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JonPR pretty much covered it up. I want to add, that even though 079900 is technically a power chord, it will not sound like a power chord if played with moderate to heavy distortion. It will sound muddy. Although a power chord is usually taught as I V I, as you add distortion omitting the octave will give more of a “power” effect because it will emphasize the lower root note. When you add the octave, it will brighten the chord and take some “power” out of it. That’s why on hard rock and metal, power chords are usually just played without the octave.
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Old 06-15-2018, 12:41 AM
Guitars+gems Guitars+gems is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
Well, its sound is defined by the notes included - and those are roots and 5ths . You can double up the root and 5th any amount you like, it's still a power chord.
Yes. In fact, all five open major chord shapes can be converted into movable shapes, by re-fingering, using the index to barre where the open strings would be. That's the basis of the CAGED system, so-called because those 5 shapes overlap up the neck in that order, for each of the 12 major chords. Here's all the shapes for a C chord:
x-3-2-0-1-0 = C shape
3-3-5-5-5-3 = A shape
8-7-5-5-5-8 = G shape
8-10-10-9-8-8 = E shape
x-10-10-12-13-12 = D shape
x-15-14-12-13-12 = C shape again (and so on)
- all C chords in terms of sound - because they all contain the notes C-E-G in various permutations.
So, are these inversions of C ? Like in the A shape, 335553, the 5th is on bass so would that be the second inversion? But then, the root is on the bass for the G shape and E shape, and the 5th for the D shape...I don't know. Maybe inversions are not the barre shapes?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
BTW, you can move open chord shapes up and leave the open strings ringing, but you get more complicated (and interesting) chords. E.g., 0-5-5-3-0-0 is a kind of Em7. 0-5-4-0-3-0 is a kind of Em9. 0-0-5-5-5-0 is a kind of Am7.
Yes, good okay, so I got that right. Thank you! I'm having fun figuring these things out and finding chords to play to break out of the first 3 frets. These are nice: 006654 and x04432.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1neeto View Post
JonPR pretty much covered it up. I want to add, that even though 079900 is technically a power chord, it will not sound like a power chord if played with moderate to heavy distortion. It will sound muddy. Although a power chord is usually taught as I V I, as you add distortion omitting the octave will give more of a “power” effect because it will emphasize the lower root note. When you add the octave, it will brighten the chord and take some “power” out of it. That’s why on hard rock and metal, power chords are usually just played without the octave.
Well, I don't know about distortion, but I agree the EBE on the bass strings sounds 022xxx sounds more powerful just because it's all deep tones. The 079900 sounds nice on my 12 string though. Vaguely like a sitar.

Thank you both for your answers
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  #5  
Old 06-15-2018, 02:11 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitars+gems View Post
So, are these inversions of C ? Like in the A shape, 335553, the 5th is on bass so would that be the second inversion? But then, the root is on the bass for the G shape and E shape, and the 5th for the D shape...I don't know.
You're right. Technically it's a 2nd inversion when the 5th is on the bottom.
It would be 1st inversion if the 3rd was on bottom - as in 0-3-2-0-1-0 for a C chord, or 2-0-0-2-3-2 for a D chord.

I put the 5th in the bass because (a) it's usually easier to play them that way (saving having to mute that string) and (b) they sound fine. Putting the 3rd on the bottom generally sounds weird, unless you're doing to as part of a bass line. E.g., you wouldn't normally play D/F# unless it was in between G and Em (either direction).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitars+gems View Post
Yes, good okay, so I got that right. Thank you! I'm having fun figuring these things out and finding chords to play to break out of the first 3 frets. These are nice: 006654 and x04432.
Yes - that gives you Amaj7/E, and Bm7/A: that's a 3rd inversion! (7th in the bass)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitars+gems View Post
Well, I don't know about distortion
Technically, just adding more roots and 5ths shouldn't sound muddy as long as everything is perfectly in tune. The higher roots simply support overtones of the lower roots, and same with the 5ths. But it would be a brighter sounding chord, because the higher strings will have their own sets of higher overtones.
Distortion makes chords sound muddy when you add the 3rds, because in our equal tempered tuning system 3rds are slightly out of tune with overtones of the root - and distortion enhances those overtones. This is (probably) the main reason power chords were invented - by electric guitarists using the first distortion units in the 1960s.

That "muddiness" is not necessarily a bad thing. After all, Jimi Hendrix managed to make distorted 7#9 chords (including both 3rds as well the 7th) sound cool....
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  #6  
Old 06-15-2018, 11:52 AM
FwL FwL is offline
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The first time I saw the term power chord it was used to describe Pete Townsend bashing away on major chords ala Baba O'riley. It wasn't until much later that the name became strictly associated with the Root 5th combination only.

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