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  #46  
Old 08-11-2018, 10:59 AM
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rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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Good luck in non looking rapid changes from around the second or third fret to way up on the fretboard. If you want to play accurately and cleanly bounding around the fretboard watch where you are going.
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  #47  
Old 08-11-2018, 08:21 PM
Dave T Dave T is offline
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I've watched several videos of John Williams playing and he watches his left hand frequently...but what did he know! (smile)

Dave
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  #48  
Old 08-13-2018, 09:45 AM
cdkrugjr cdkrugjr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dosland View Post
A very long time ago we had to demonstrate our ability to pick up an unknown piece and play it - to a certain standard (nowhere near perfectly, in my case) - in order to be assessed for our progression reports. It's a bit different on a guitar from something like piano, given the range of choices to be made, especially in terms of left hand position, and in that sense maybe it makes sense to compare to other stringed instruments like the cello and violin, where similar decisions are required. The guitars we had available back in those days never had fret markers and I didn't ever think about why - it's just the way it was. There's also a certain class of instructor (or there was, anyway) that did not look kindly on the occasional peek at the left hand position. Is it wrong to check where your hand is? No. Do I occasionally feel a twinge of panic/shame when I do it? Yes. Yes I do.
They've filmed world-class pianists and definitively shown that they Do look at their hands, their eyes leading their hands next move, All The Time, despite insisting that they Never look at their hands.

I would imagine guitar is much the same.
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  #49  
Old 08-13-2018, 09:58 AM
Caddy Caddy is offline
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Originally Posted by SouthpawJeff View Post
Hmmmm, while those are indeed stringed instruments, I donít see them as being all that similar to guitar. Not trying to be argumentative, I just feel theyíre very different animals in terms of playing, design, and construction.

And while Iím not a classical musician, I would imagine they have to practice as well no? Are there musicians who can sit down and play a complicated piece of music theyíve never played before at full speed and sound correct just by reading the music? Again not trying to be snarky, I honestly donít know. I just figured even accomplished musicians needed to practice? I know for myself, (not a musician, just a hack trying), I need to see where my hands are going while practicing until I play a piece enough for my hands to ďrememberĒ where they need to go🙂.

Thanks,
Jeff
Classical guitars predate steel stringed guitars by years and years. I would say based on that that steel string and electric guitars (especially electrics) are further from a true guitar (classical nylon guitars). Those go back to the days of gut strings.

Better question might be why once they began making steel string and electric guitars they thought markers were necessary.

Actually, I really never look at fretboard markers while playing.
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  #50  
Old 08-24-2018, 02:11 PM
SBalderrama SBalderrama is offline
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practice enough and the dots are not so much necessary with 12 fret necks. Its a good excuse to really get to know a particular instrument. I have a few guitars with dots and some without. Flamenco uses the Capo a lot, and the dots are actually counterproductive in that situation.
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  #51  
Old 09-09-2018, 12:40 AM
JohnnySmash JohnnySmash is offline
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I have two classical guitars. Both have fret markers. Silver in color. Thanks to a small bottle of finger nail polish.
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  #52  
Old 09-11-2018, 11:32 AM
Carbonius Carbonius is offline
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A whole puncher and quality sticky notes...

I made some that way for side markers and it works just fine. Almost unnoticeable to the viewer, works great for me. Mine are a subtle orange which actually blend into the wood colour well. However when I look down I see orange on black, so it's fine.

They rarely come off as I almost never rap my thumb all the way around a 2" fretboard. Not like I'm strumming an F#/D chord here!

You can also switch out colours whenever you want to.
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  #53  
Old 09-14-2018, 09:25 PM
AxeDude AxeDude is offline
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No markers really impresses a lot of people in the audience who wonder "how does this guy know where the notes are?".
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  #54  
Old 09-14-2018, 09:48 PM
guitar george guitar george is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AxeDude View Post
No markers really impresses a lot of people in the audience who wonder "how does this guy know where the notes are?".
If you can play a guitar up the neck with no fret markers it certainly proves you are a somewhat-good guitar player.
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  #55  
Old 09-17-2018, 07:49 AM
SouthpawJeff SouthpawJeff is offline
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Well itís been about three months and this post is still rolling and Iím still practicing. I canít say Iíve gotten good enough to not need the fret markers, but it is getting easier.... slowly but surely. I keep thinking about adding them, (usually when I jump up the neck and get the wrong fret), but just havenít gotten around to it yet.

Iíve thought about it a bit since first posting and now think itís pretty silly not to have them just for the sake of not having them. The presence of absence of fret markers really doesnít change whether people enjoy my playing or not. So logically Iíve already decided to add them, itís the stubborn part of my brain thatís kept me from doing it. Kind of pressing me to challenge myself😉

Jeff
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  #56  
Old 09-17-2018, 08:47 PM
Jengstrom Jengstrom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urlkonig View Post
Same reason that there's no markers on a violin or viola or cello etc. Classical instrumentalists by their very nature read music, and do not "spot" themselves visually on their instruments.
Violin, viola, and cello are fretless instruments. Players learn to get to certain positions by feel and then use their ears to fine tune.

I agree that fretted instruments are easier (for me) with fret markings. I used a white paint pen to put markers on the side of my classical.

John
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  #57  
Old 09-26-2018, 09:19 AM
R. Aguirre R. Aguirre is offline
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Try always holding the guitar in the same position, practice a dozen or so times moving your hand to the right fret position while looking, but try to focus on the feel of the frets when you land, and your hand/thumb position. Then try it once with your eyes closed, open them and see where you landed. Adjust if necessary and repeat. Over time, muscle memory tied to the preceding chord position by your brain will allow you to find the right frets. This is how violinists (and other non-fretted instruments) can make it work. And why it takes years of practice. Each of the hand Ďpositionsí need to get programmed into your brain until you can find them just like finding the tip of your nose. But it wonít work without disciplined posture and disciplined (i.e. correct) repetitions. Even after youíve Ďgot ití you have to keep drilling it in. Also, this is why itís good not to practice too long (after you get tired), because your posture will slip and the muscle memory will not be consistent. Youíll waste time relearning. Iíve tested this principle on violin (played for 6 months), guitar, and also managed to hit eight out of ten perfect free-throws with a basketball with my eyes closed after three 30 minute sessions of practice - it works! Basically, this is how using The Force works in real life.
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  #58  
Old 09-26-2018, 11:48 AM
JDaniel JDaniel is offline
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Interesting thread.

A lot of fretting (pun intended) over having position markers or not. Coming from the lutenist/classical guitarist prospective, I've never thought about having or not any markers. Though I guess there are two: the nut and the neck/body join at the twelfth (or whatever for the lute) fret. When I build steel string guitars, position markers are for decoration only and I like that, but don't much need 'em for playing.
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  #59  
Old 09-27-2018, 09:41 PM
R. Aguirre R. Aguirre is offline
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That pun was just waiting!

Another way they do it especially for young (impatient) students of the viol is to actually tape an adhesive decal on to the fretboard that has lines at the finger positions. But this still requires an instructor to correct precise finger placement for proper pitch. It’s often just a matter of rolling the finger slightly. This combines muscle memory with auditory memory - that’s a lot of training! We fretters have it easy! Though I suppose very sensitive guitar players would adjust finger pressure on the string to ensure intonation with open strings especially using classical string-heights.
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  #60  
Old 09-30-2018, 09:59 PM
Rapido Eduwardo Rapido Eduwardo is offline
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Some classical's have fret markers, e.g. the Cordoba c10 (I have two). For my classical that does not have fret markers, I buy removable ones from Rosetteguitarpaoducts.com . These are available in other places.
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