Info needed for installing elecronics in acoutic guitar.

[Ditch]

I'm having a guitar built and not sure if I want to plug in or not. I have a Martin that has the plug in but never really had a need or desire to. Then I went to a friends house and he had an acoustic amp and I plugged in. Holy cow!!! was that cool!! So Now I'm thinking to have electronics put into the build. Then I just read cutting holes into a guitar can hurt the sound of the guitar. So now I'm rethinking because I really don't have to plug in. I thought I'd ask you folks your thoughts on this. Is it worth cutting into expensive guitar just for plugging in for fun?

[martingitdave]

There are lots of threads on this topic. If you need amplification for performing, a pickup is priceless. Well... maybe not priceless... $300. If you don't need a pickup, then there is a school of thought that it negatively impacts the tone of the acoustic guitar. I would say that, depending on the style of pickup, most changes would be imperceptible to most players. There are some styles of pickups (USTs for example) that are maligned by many for affecting tone. I used to be one of those people, until I got a new Martin with the Aura + system.

[Mandobart]

You can install a pickup that will only require enlarging the end pin hole, or if like the majority of instruments that have screwed-in strap buttons, you'll have to drill a hole that you will promptly fill with a jack. You don't have to cut out the upper bout side to install a preamp. I use an external preamp for my multiple instruments. I defy anyone to honestly say they could hear a difference in tone after installing USB pu's. And you can do it for less than $100 in parts and a few hour's time. I've done it 16 times at least.

[David Youngman]

Pickups do affect the sound of the instrument. Yeah it can be minimal but every time you add mass to the top of the guitar you change the pitch of the resonant frequency. A good builder works hard to get a specific resonant frequency. For each each gram of weight added to the top you lower the pitch by about 1 Hz.

In my opinion, if you want to preserve the sound of the guitar (especially nice custom guitars) keep your pickup setup light (at least what you attach to the top of the guitar). K&Ks are nice and light and won't change the sound much. Internal mics are good too. If it has a gooseneck attach it to the back of the guitar.

I would also stay away from Undersaddle pickups as they absorb vibration from the strings that you want transferred to the top of your guitar. They are definitely the most common type of pickup because they are good at controlling feedback and can get a good clear sound. However, for nice guitars will take away from the wonderful natural sound that the builder worked so hard to achieve.

[GGinMP]

I'm a fan of pickups that use bridge plate or soundboard transducers. There's such minor contact with the top that I don't think the acoustic sound of the guitar is changed by the install (as stated, it typically just requires widening the end pin hole a tiny bit). The K&K Pure Mini is one of the most popular of this style pickup.

[stevecuss]

Originally Posted by Ditch

Is it worth cutting into expensive guitar just for plugging in for fun?

I would say a resounding "yes" to this direct question. I think a guitar is meant for fun, so if you're having a nice one built and you enjoy plugging in, then absolutely, spend the coin and get a pickup you love. The good news is we are in the "golden age" of pickup options.

Are you up on the basic types? I won't rehash what you already know. Do you have a budget in mind? Feel free to reply and we'd happily recommend some options that are not very invasive or even non invasive to the guitar

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Ditch

I'm having a guitar built and not sure if I want to plug in or not. I have a Martin that has the plug in but never really had a need or desire to. Then I went to a friends house and he had an acoustic amp and I plugged in. Holy cow!!! was that cool!! So Now I'm thinking to have electronics put into the build. Then I just read cutting holes into a guitar can hurt the sound of the guitar. So now I'm rethinking because I really don't have to plug in. I thought I'd ask you folks your thoughts on this. Is it worth cutting into expensive guitar just for plugging in for fun?

Hi Ditch
I think you are wise to consider this going into the build. Modern settings often require the flexibility of the ability to plug into amps or house systems. I see life-long dedicated Bluegrass players these days with an end jack in their instruments.

My preference is zero electronics inside my guitars. All my internal gear is passive, and I run external preamps. That way the power is not buried inside the guitar, and no holes have to be cut into sides of the instruments.

All 4 of my acoustic guitars have a passive K&K Pure mini pickup and a K&K microphone wired to a stereo (TRS) end jack. I run from guitar to preamp/blender to amp/PA (simultaneously).

That way I can run a stage amp which I control at the same time as send my signal to the house which they set, and neither of us interferes with the other. I can adjust the amp without affecting the house and vice versa.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Ditch

I'm having a guitar built and not sure if I want to plug in or not. I have a Martin that has the plug in but never really had a need or desire to. Then I went to a friends house and he had an acoustic amp and I plugged in. Holy cow!!! was that cool!! So Now I'm thinking to have electronics put into the build. Then I just read cutting holes into a guitar can hurt the sound of the guitar. So now I'm rethinking because I really don't have to plug in. I thought I'd ask you folks your thoughts on this. Is it worth cutting into expensive guitar just for plugging in for fun?

Plugging-in for fun can be... well, fun! I would install a pickup/preamp system in an expensive custom-made guitar but you're you, and you already have your Martin for that purpose. If you're thinking of playing out for money, and you want to use your custom-made, expensive guitar, then you'll likely need to amplify it. If your gigs were to be mainly for a wine-and-cheese audience in quiet venues, I would likely use a good external microphone, either on a mic-stand or clamped on with a brand-specific setup (DPA-4099G). If I was going to play in "livelier" venues, such as pubs, I'd definitely install a pickup/preamp system so I could play louder with increased resistance to feedback. Good pickup preamp systems that I'd recommend are a Fishman Matrix Infinty UST running through a Fishman Aura preamp or a Trance Audio Amulet M Dual Mono Acoustic Guitar System or Trance Audio Amulet Stereo Acoustic Guitar System. Remember that you're getting an expensive guitar so don't skimp on a mic or pickup/preamp system.

DPA-4099G Acoustic Guitar Mic: http://www.dpamicrophones.com/microp...one-for-guitar

Trance Audio Amulet M Dual Mono Acoustic Guitar System: http://www.tranceaudio.com/amuletm.html

The Trance Audio Amulet True Stereo Guitar Pickup System: http://www.tranceaudio.com/amulet.html

[pops]

I have a 1928 Martin 2-17, it belonged to Richard Shindell and the end pin was drilled for a pickup, I put a K&K in it and the sound hasn't changed one bit. Since the hole was there I figured add the pickup. I wouldn't worry about changing the sound with a bridge plate pickup, the 2-17 is extremely light and was unchanged. I doubt any new guitar could come close to being this light so doubt you would hear a difference.

[Ditch]

Wow, thanks for all the feed back. Not sure what I'm going to do yet but I really need to make a choice soon. Guess I'll have another cup of coffee and reread all this info. Thanks!!

[tadol]

As an aside - I would also talk to your luthier about installing the jack independent of the end-pin. They should be able to countersink the jack very neatly into the butt of the guitar, either below or to one side of the normal location of the end pin, and no hole needs to be drilled for an end-pin - it can just be pilot drilled and screwed into the block. All very practical and incredibly easy while the box is open -

[Ditch]

After carefully reading over all the great replies and doing some reading I decided to go with a K & K mini. I think that will fit my needs perfectly. Thanks again for your information and help. Very much appreciated.