Studio Setup Questions(Acoustic Panel Placement)

[johnnydobbers]

Greetings. I have finally gotten studio monitors(a final piece to my studio), and am looking to setup my recording space. (I will be adding a rug shortly)

I have a few questions about where to place my acoustic panels. Do people generally record where they mix? I have 9 2'x4'x4" panels made of OC703. I'm assuming to put 3 in the "hard" corners of my room for bass traps, around midway up. But you see to the left of my desk, I have an AC duct which creates 2 "corners". I also read about first reflections, so I could use a mirror and place a panel each side of my head where I see the reflection. Not sure If I would need to place a panel overhead as the ceiling above my chair is sloped.

So that would be a general mixing setup up. But what about recording acoustic guitar? Without getting more panels, do I just record in that space, generally where I would be sitting while mixing? Do I pull some of the panels off the wall and create a semi circle around the microphones? As of now I have my mic stands to the left of where I sit.

Help me out here! linked a few pics of my room. It is 12'x12.5', slanted ceiling about 1/3 of the way back, then levels to an 8' ceiling....back of the room is a double closet door.http://imgur.com/a/O2bWnkp

http://imgur.com/a/IwdHs6L

http://imgur.com/a/2ZdwrLI

[jim1960]

The most important places are the four corners because that's where low frequency build up will occur. After that, you want to get your first reflection points covered. That will take up 8 panels.

I can't think of a best place to put that last panel. An overhead cloud would be good but one panel doesn't quite do it and you could use 2'x4x2" panels for those if you decide to build/buy more later.

Here's a diagram I made for the Masterlist page. You can find a video there on how to find the first reflection points (those are not to scale in the diagram).

[johnnydobbers]

Originally Posted by jim1960

The most important places are the four corners because that's where low frequency build up will occur. After that, you want to get your first reflection points covered. That will take up 8 panels.

I can't think of a best place to put that last panel. An overhead cloud would be good but one panel doesn't quite do it and you could use 2'x4x2" panels for those if you decide to build/buy more later.

Here's a diagram I made for the Masterlist page. You can find a video there on how to find the first reflection points (those are not to scale in the diagram).

Hi Jim.

I actually was referencing your diagram in my post. My confusion arises when I'm in "recording" mode. Do I try to record at the same place I master? This is confusing since the sound direction from the guitar would be opposite of the monitors. Move the panels around? Which corner do I put the bass trap to my left? The corner created by the wall in front of my listening position and the AC duct? Or the corner created by the wall to my left and the AC duct? Maybe put one in each of those corners(thus using the final panel). As for the ceiling, if I get the 2 inch panels, say 3 more, do I install them on the slanted part of the ceiling, or the ceiling parallel to the floor?

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by johnnydobbers

I actually was referencing your diagram in my post....

Unless one has deep pockets and a large room, any home studio is going to be an exercise in compromise.

Do I try to record at the same place I master?
Unless you have a better option, I'd set it up that way. What you might do to make that work better is get a couple of moveable bass traps to set up in a 'V' behind the mics.

This is confusing since the sound direction from the guitar would be opposite of the monitors. Move the panels around?
Facing the computer isn't ideal. What I would probably try first is this... a quarter turn to the left from your mixing position. Set up a couple of bass traps on stands there in the 'V' I mentioned and see how that works. If that is less than ideal, a complete 180 might work, again with the moveable bass traps. The latter is a more difficult position to work out of because the monitor and keyboard are behind you. The quarter turn to the left leaves both on your right and within easy reach (turn to the right if you're a lefty).

The corner created by the wall in front of my listening position and the AC duct? Or the corner created by the wall to my left and the AC duct? Maybe put one in each of those corners(thus using the final panel).
I like your solution. That's what I'd likely do.

As for the ceiling, if I get the 2 inch panels, say 3 more, do I install them on the slanted part of the ceiling, or the ceiling parallel to the floor?
It's hard for me to judge from the photo but it looks like you're sitting under the flat part of the ceiling, not the slant. If that's the case, I think the best places would be one longways across the slant, then two perpendicular to that above your sitting position.

As you position your panels, keep in mind they work much better if you give them an inch or two of air between the fiberglass and the wall or ceiling. I know GIK builds that air space into their panels. I don't know if yours have that. If they don't, do what you can to create that space.

[johnnydobbers]

Thanks for the quick responses Jim. The panels are well built with a nice inch and a half or so air gap behind them. I've just placed the panels on the floor in the suggested config and will go on from there. From a listening standpoint, it sounds great! I will experiment with moving a couple into a V shape while I record acoustic guitar using a microphone. I guess the wisdom is to have a generally well treated room, and then add a "pseudo room" around the microphone using a few extra panels in a V shape or what have you? BTW, my listening position is directly under the transition from the slope celing to paralell

I can't wait to finally share some recordings.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by johnnydobbers

Thanks for the quick responses Jim. The panels are well built with a nice inch and a half or so air gap behind them. I've just placed the panels on the floor in the suggested config and will go on from there. From a listening standpoint, it sounds great!

Ideally, you'd want floor to ceiling bass traps in the corners but most of us aren't going to be able to do that. The best position for single 4'x2' panels is about midway up the wall.

Originally Posted by johnnydobbers

I will experiment with moving a couple into a V shape while I record acoustic guitar using a microphone. I guess the wisdom is to have a generally well treated room, and then add a "pseudo room" around the microphone using a few extra panels in a V shape or what have you?

Exactly. Generally speaking, a small room will benefit from bass traps and more bass traps. The only place I'd use 2" traps is on the ceiling.

[johnnydobbers]

Originally Posted by jim1960

Ideally, you'd want floor to ceiling bass traps in the corners but most of us aren't going to be able to do that. The best position for single 4'x2' panels is about midway up the wall.


Exactly. Generally speaking, a small room will benefit from bass traps and more bass traps. The only place I'd use 2" traps is on the ceiling.

The corners in front of my listening area are only 5.5' tall, so ground level is good enough...I've got the bass traps in the corners behind me on a pair of Ikea tables which raise them up to roughly halfway up.

I wish it wasn't so hard to find the material used to make these panels, as I would make another handful myself. But the insulation is impossible to get nowadays without buying a whole pallet

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by johnnydobbers

I guess the wisdom is to have a generally well treated room, and then add a "pseudo room" around the microphone using a few extra panels in a V shape or what have you?

This is exactly what I do in my 10x11 room that serves for mixing and recording. I have wall panels much like in Jim's diagram (thicker bass traps across the corners, front, back and first reflection 4"panels; no ceiling cloud yet). Then I have a couple more floor-standing 4" panels I put behind the mic.

I've played with different playing & mic positions and angles, within the confines of my space, and you might find one particular spot or angle seems to work better for your recordings. It's worth experimenting.

[johnnydobbers]

Thanks for the advice...truly a great forum

[runamuck]

Hi J.

If that were my room I'd make sure to get a trap in both immediate corners, left and right of your speakers, a couple at the wall/ceiling intersection behind your speakers, one at each first reflection point left and right, and then your remaining corners. I'd suggest adding a few to the ceiling if you can but they don't need to be 4" thick; 2" will suffice.

When you record, the most important thing is to have the null of the mic pointed in the direction of any computer generated noise.

I'd try that before concluding I needed gobos directly behind the mics.

[johnnydobbers]

Originally Posted by runamuck

Hi J.

If that were my room I'd make sure to get a trap in both immediate corners, left and right of your speakers, a couple at the wall/ceiling intersection behind your speakers, one at each first reflection point left and right, and then your remaining corners. I'd suggest adding a few to the ceiling if you can but they don't need to be 4" thick; 2" will suffice.

When you record, the most important thing is to have the null of the mic pointed in the direction of any computer generated noise.

I'd try that before concluding I needed gobos directly behind the mics.

Thanks for the advice. When you say "a couple at the wall/ceiling intersection", do you mean on the wall, or at an angle between the wall/ceiling? I'm assuming in this config, I'd try to record facing my speakers? I need to research my mics patterns etc for sure. Also, I did build my computer specifically for my studio, so silence was kept in mind during the build. Will be interesting to see how much computer noise gets captured in an ideal setup.

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by johnnydobbers

Thanks for the advice. When you say "a couple at the wall/ceiling intersection", do you mean on the wall, or at an angle between the wall/ceiling? I'm assuming in this config, I'd try to record facing my speakers? I need to research my mics patterns etc for sure. Also, I did build my computer specifically for my studio, so silence was kept in mind during the build. Will be interesting to see how much computer noise gets captured in an ideal setup.

I meant to bridge that angle between the wall and ceiling alhough I really don't know that there'd be a significnt difference than just hanging them flat on the wall.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by johnnydobbers

When you say "a couple at the wall/ceiling intersection", do you mean on the wall, or at an angle between the wall/ceiling?

I think he means like the angled trap at the top of this photo. This is the corner where I record vocals. Ignore the computer and case at the bottom. That stuff is just sitting there since last night when I broke down my iMac and all the peripherals as I'm rearranging my studio room.

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by jim1960

I think he means like the angled trap at the top of this photo. This is the corner where I record vocals. Ignore the computer and case at the bottom. That stuff is just sitting there since last night when I broke down my iMac and all the peripherals as I'm rearranging my studio room.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

And Jim, why the foam apparatus when you're surrounded by bass traps? I had one of those and found it to cause comb filtering/phasing sounding issues.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by runamuck

And Jim, why the foam apparatus when you're surrounded by bass traps?

What foam apparatus? There's no foam in that photo. My room had quite a bit of foam in it years ago when I fell for that nonsense. There's hardly any left now. Just a few pieces in the front corners and some ridged stuff on the back of the door, none of which can be seen in the photo.

Edit: Do you mean the thing on the mic stand? That's not foam either. That's an SE Electronics RF-Space reflection filter. They say the panel is made of wool absorbers. I only use that when I'm sitting at the desk and recording scratch vocals.