flatpicking

[eyesore]

i have always fingerpicked the guitar but recently [because i was bored] i took an interest in flatpicking again. i just can't do it but now with all this stuff available on the net ; there is probably some good instruction .mainly looking for crosspick technique. everything i see is fretting hand ; i want to see the right hand. is there any you tubes anyone can recommend? thanks.

[phydaux]

I subscribe to a youtuber called Keeppicking.

I also highly recommend Flatpicking Essentials from Flatpick.com. It's an eight volume set. He also stresses Carter Picking BEFORE Crosspicking. Or rather Crosspicking as a way to embellish the Carter Style arrangements of songs, along with hammer ons, flick offs, and bass runs.

He has supplemental volumes to the series like The Big Book of Crosspicking, Flatpicking The Blues, and Flatpicking Carter Style.

He also stresses learning to play rhythm before learning to play lead, and being able to learn the melody of any song by ear.

Highly recommended. Pro tip, though - Order the PDFs. The hard copies just take WAY TOO LONG to get delivered.

[Joe Beamish]

I’ve taken s similar path in the last two to three months — expanding from finger style into flat picking.

You should definitely go on YouTube to research the various picking-holding methods of bluegrass and bluegrass-adjacent players. There are some good closeups all over the place. I even recall a split-screen video of Molly Tuttle’s two hands. (Like many if not most, she plays mainly from the wrist. Whereas I find myself moving my pick-holding fingers to a higher degree, going for dynamics more than sheer speed.)

Try one method, see how it works, try another, etc.

Fred Sokolow has a really good book and CD from the 70s called Complete Country Guitar which I like because there’s such a good mix of rhythm and lead styles.

As always, do what gives you a buzz.

[Robin, Wales]

... He also stresses learning to play rhythm before learning to play lead, and being able to learn the melody of any song by ear...

Good advice.

Most flat pickers that I have played with (and me now that I'm developing the style) spend 95% of their time laying down rhythm with licks, fills, bass runs and turnarounds backing songs. I can't think of anyone who uses much cross picking except to ornament a Carter style lead break occasionally.

In bluegrass, flat picking an acoustic guitar is fundamentally about creating a specific style of backing behind harmonised vocals. For me, that's the primary building block to get in place first (and not easy to do well!).

[Mr. Jelly]

For the right hand when flatpicking the thing to remember is up down, up down, up down. And to change it up you can go down up, down up, down up.

[phydaux]

Dan Miller, the publisher of the now-defunct Flatpicking Guitar magazine, webmaster of flatpick.com, and the author/editor Flatpicking Essentials, talks about flatpicking Carter style as a form of solo chord melody.

He goes on to say that if you can flatpick a solo Carter style arrangement of a song, then you can also use what you know to do a pretty good job of playing rhythm guitar to accompany that song along with an ensemble. AND play the highly embellished Carter style arrangement as an "improvised" solo when your turn to solo comes around.

[KevWind]

And to add to what has been said , for me cross picking is great but often when being learned is a bit pattern formula based, and can be a bit restricted to focusing on only the patterns (now it does not have to be and when done well brings in lots of variation) but Flatpicking in general goes well beyond. And I agree with those who say learning rhythm first is the key

As noted learning to carry the rhythm using strummed chords (which creates the basic harmony to the melody, ) and then maybe embellishing over that rhythm especially with a vocal and or playing with others ,, and is how I learned to flat pick. And how I gigged for most of my career

For example I guess I am using some crosspick-ish like technique ? (not sure) . But I am not thinking a specific pattern or any "pattern",,, but simply letting the feel of the music dictate the style and embellishment @ 1:53 I start to zoom in and you might be able to see what my right hand is doing (particularly if you click the gear icon and slow it down to say 0.5) But honestly I cant tell you any specifics other than I am rolling up and down the strings and using some hammer ons and pull offs


For other flatpick technique when playing with others simply carrying the basic rhythm with strumming allows the group virtually infinite melodic possibilities on top of that , where something like cross picking is already filling in a lot of melody which could become crowded combined with lead riffs etc. (but as noted could be used for a specific solo section)

Digital recording where I could dub in ,, has however reacquainted me with my strumming roots...

Here I am using basic strumming to allow the other melodic elements to be more distinct

[Joe Beamish]

Much depends on the OP‘s musical goals, and in what settings you want to play, and with whom.

If you want to play solos, there’s no reason not to start now. It’s a long, never ending learning process. I have found that being able to pick fiddle tunes has made me a better rhythm player.

If you want to adhere to a rigid bluegrass jam scenario and the limited role of a rhythm guitar playing in that context, then limit yourself accordingly.

[eyesore]

Originally Posted by Joe Beamish

Much depends on the OP‘s musical goals, and in what settings you want to play, and with whom.

If you want to play solos, there’s no reason not to start now. It’s a long, never ending learning process. I have found that being able to pick fiddle tunes has made me a better rhythm player.

If you want to adhere to a rigid bluegrass jam scenario and the limited role of a rhythm guitar playing in that context, then limit yourself accordingly.

no jamming ; just want my solo flatpicking to sound good and clean. I have a pretty good idea of the neck; it's the right hand picking I have trouble with,like how to hold the pick.I 've had trouble with this since the 70's.somedays it sounds good but most days I sound very mechanical;terrible and stiff .

[Joe Beamish]

Originally Posted by eyesore

no jamming ; just want my solo flatpicking to sound good and clean. I have a pretty good idea of the neck; it's the right hand picking I have trouble with,like how to hold the pick.I 've had trouble with this since the 70's.somedays it sounds good but most days I sound very mechanical;terrible and stiff .

My only advice is to find a linear path you like and stick to it, every day. Go slow. Use a metronome at least some of the time. Learn songs (e.g., fiddle tunes like The Arkansas Traveler) and practice them. You’ll get better!

Don’t skip around and try one thing one day, another thing another day and expect to improve. (Doesn’t work for me, anyway.)

Choose a pick holding method and stick to it for awhile unless it hurts.

[Mr. Jelly]

Originally Posted by eyesore

most days I sound very mechanical;terrible and stiff .

That sounds like you just need allot more time working at it.

There was a time I dabbled with fingerpicking. I learned to do it well enough at the time. Many years later I decided to 'really' learn to finger pick. So, I put my flat picks away and dedicated myself to fingerpicking. I worked at it for years and came to a point where I am as good as I think I will ever get. Now I can go back and forth but it took time to become comfortable with it. The whole exercise showed me that the fret board knowledge of one style is very useful to the other.

[Italuke]

I share the OP's pain. I've pretty much altered my pick grip successfully although I still like my old, wrong, grip for hard strumming. But for me it's the motion of my wrist. It simply does NOT want to hinge laterally, parallel to the top of the guitar. I see all kinds of players whose wrists hinge that way and am envious. As soon as I try any speed at all my hand goes into a knocking on a door, pecking motion. I mean that's the natural way a wrist hinges, right? But awful for guitar playing.

Now, vast majority of players I see plant their wrist and even some forearm on or near the bridge and pick from a static "base." Others plant a pinkie or pinkie and ring on the top. And a few, like Bryan, keep the hand mostly floating, maybe a light pinkie touch. Molly on the other hand definitely plants her wrist on or near the bridge. I can't decide what works better for me.

What's the wisdom here?

[Joe Beamish]

Originally Posted by Italuke

…
What's the wisdom here?

Find what works for YOU, and where you want to go.

Myself, I tend to pick less with my wrist and more with the fingers that are holding the pick. That’s where much of the motion seems to be. It sounds good, it’s dynamic, and it works for me now, though I might change it over time. I was always a finger style player who played the single string lines with my index finger, like JJ Cale. Maybe that’s the source of my flat picking method, I don’t know.

I think the main thing is to choose a fairly linear path and stick to it long enough to decide whether it works for you.

In general when it comes to playing guitar, in my own experience and observation, the most common pitfall seems to be skipping around and trying different things all the time, without giving any one approach enough of a chance to go somewhere.

[Italuke]

Yup I agree Joe. Pick one approach and focus on that for a good while. I have to just power through it. One frustration I have is I studied classical so I can still play everything I want to much faster with fingers. Just don't have the power or volume of course.

[Bluenose]

I also took up flatpicking after years of fingerpicking. There are definite rules and techniques to be learned and practiced regarding alternate picking and they need to become second nature. My goal now is to be able to strum a traditional type bluegrass song and then play a flatpicking 'break' that compliments the melody and clearly defines the chord changes. I believe good players can do this and it sounds great if you can do it solo. YMMV ect.