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  #61  
Old 06-13-2022, 09:41 AM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
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I've owned and played less-expensive versions of many electric guitar models. I enjoy the variety. I enjoy "dressing up" with characteristic guitar models for various musical moods and eras.

Obviously, the classic Les Paul model as it evolved in the late 50s is one to experience. I once played a Korean Samick branded LP burst copy into which I'd put Seymour Duncan pickups (reversing the neck pickup, Peter Green style). The one I play now is one of those inexpensive Gibson 21st century thin matte black finished models, basically Studio model specs with even less bling. 57 Classic humbuckers, nice asymmetrical neck carve. I think it's weight-relieved (not overly heavy) and has the maple cap, but I doubt it's a pretty one -- hidden under the flat black finish anyway. My electric guitar "home-town" is a Telecaster, and to my mind a Les Paul shouldn't be dark sounding. Mine's not.

Given how much I love P90s variations, I'd love to own a Les Paul with P90s too. Maybe someday the right deal will fall into my lap, but the 57 Classics are good as full-sized humbuckers go.
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  #62  
Old 06-15-2022, 10:01 AM
Rick Jones Rick Jones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankHudson View Post
I've owned and played less-expensive versions of many electric guitar models. I enjoy the variety. I enjoy "dressing up" with characteristic guitar models for various musical moods and eras.

The one I play now is one of those inexpensive Gibson 21st century thin matte black finished models, basically Studio model specs with even less bling. 57 Classic humbuckers, nice asymmetrical neck carve. I think it's weight-relieved (not overly heavy) and has the maple cap, but I doubt it's a pretty one -- hidden under the flat black finish anyway. My electric guitar "home-town" is a Telecaster, and to my mind a Les Paul shouldn't be dark sounding. Mine's not.
I had a matte black 'gothic' studio model that had a star and moon 12th fret inlay for a while. It otherwise sounded similar to what you have. Nice guitar but wasn't the same sound as the standard I had, although likely down to pickups mostly, I guess.
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  #63  
Old 06-15-2022, 10:15 AM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
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Originally Posted by Snorse View Post
I had a matte black 'gothic' studio model that had a star and moon 12th fret inlay for a while. It otherwise sounded similar to what you have. Nice guitar but wasn't the same sound as the standard I had, although likely down to pickups mostly, I guess.
Yup. Besides tastes (which vary) how different pickups react with different amps and effects chains really make a lot of the difference in how electric guitars sound. It's not uncommon for regular sized humbuckers to be uninspiring to me, but I think that may be because my tastes, amps, and effects are by now "formatted" for single-coil pickups.

Yours has the Gibson 490/498 pair from what I see. I'm not familiar with them personally.
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  #64  
Old 06-15-2022, 10:20 AM
fenderball fenderball is offline
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why not?


currently have 4
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  #65  
Old 06-15-2022, 10:27 AM
letterk letterk is offline
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When I got into electrics, I knew I was supposed to like and buy an LP. I kept trying them but couldn't figure out what the big deal is. Keep in mind I had zero background on electrics and electric brands. If anything, my only bias was that I was expected to like them. What I found out is I like the scale length, but that's about it. Wondered off into other style electrics (strat, tele, cu22) but eventually came back to wanting an LP, but one that wasn't stuck in time with all the things I didn't like about it. To sum it up, they all seemed unfinished and a poor value. That's why I've ended up with two PRS 594's.

Please note I am not enthralled by "vintage" in any way. I don't think there's anything magical with them. I'm an engineer and get annoyed by things that can easily be fixed but aren't because of some weird romance to things 60 years ago. That's why my tele has a belly cut, locking tuners, a bridge you can easily intonate, compound radius fretboard, etc...

I also think all the downstream effects on tone has just as much, if not more, than the actual pickups themselves. And I believe the pickups have an order of magnitude more effect on tone that the guitar itself.
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  #66  
Old 06-15-2022, 03:18 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Originally Posted by letterk View Post
I'm an engineer and get annoyed by things that can easily be fixed but aren't because of some weird romance to things 60 years ago. That's why my tele has a belly cut, locking tuners, a bridge you can easily intonate, compound radius fretboard, etc...
My take on so called modern 'improvements", it's not always romance why people prefer vintage.

This is opinion, but backed up by owning over 50 electric guitars (some vintage, some modern), building quite a few, and repairing hundreds! I record music almost daily and I play guitar at least a few hours every day.

Belly cut is nice (especially if you have a belly), my Nick Lucas and J45 acoustics cut into me when I'm gigging so I would appreciate them having a belly cut!

Locking tuners well IMO aren't needed when the nut, frets and saddles are done right. My guitars rarely go out of tune. So are they really an improvement? I think there's more that can break on them and they add weight (which could either be good or bad). I prefer simple.

Vintage ABR bridges intonate and IMO sound better than most modern bridges. On Fender though, I do like compensated saddles on Teles, and I don't mind 6 saddle Teles either, so I lean towards modern.

A compound radius feels nice, but become a problem when it's time for a fret dress and or refret. I do all my own fretwork, so I like straight radius guitars. For guitars I play a lot of lead on, I like 9.5, but nothing feels as good to me for rhythm as a 7.25 on a Fender. And a lot of this also depends on how good the guitar is setup at the bridge. I especially like to setup vintage style Strat bridges, and consider a properly setup one a work of art.


As for pickups, as long as they are unpotted and not too high output, I like modern and vintage. But potted pickups only pick up string sounds, whereas unpotted, with their microphonic quality, pickup more of the guitar tonal attributes, specifically the what the wood contributes. There's a reason many old vintage guitar aficionados like unpotted pickups, they want to hear the wood, and I love the term I heard from an old Grestch fan used to describe this, he called it "knock"
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  #67  
Old 06-15-2022, 07:37 PM
Bushleague Bushleague is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankHudson View Post
Yup. Besides tastes (which vary) how different pickups react with different amps and effects chains really make a lot of the difference in how electric guitars sound. It's not uncommon for regular sized humbuckers to be uninspiring to me, but I think that may be because my tastes, amps, and effects are by now "formatted" for single-coil pickups.

Yours has the Gibson 490/498 pair from what I see. I'm not familiar with them personally.
I've always liked the PAF pickups, but never bonded with the more high output models.

I just got a Japanese LP special though, and man, for me the way those P-90's respond and sound is hugely inspiring. I'm a really rhythmic "funky" kind of a player, but also gravitating to higher gain tones and more aggressive music. Sort of like if Rage Against the Machine used more complex 16th note patterns, Mixolydian scales, and came up with something besides mind numbingly basic pentatonic riffs.

When I strap on that LP special and just let my hands go exploring for an hour its crazy how many great riffs I can come up with. Off the start I tended to fight the P-90's a little on certain things, but evolving a bit and learning to gel with them is turning into a really exciting phase for me.

Last edited by Bushleague; 06-15-2022 at 08:00 PM.
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  #68  
Old 06-15-2022, 08:10 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bushleague View Post
I've always liked the PAF pickups, but never bonded with the more high output models.

I just got a Japanese LP special though, and man, for me the way those P-90's respond and sound is hugely inspiring. I'm a really rhythmic "funky" kind of a player, but also gravitating to higher gain tones and more aggressive music. Sort of like if Rage Against the Machine used more complex 16th note patterns, Mixolydian scales, and came up with something besides mind numbingly basic pentatonic riffs.

When I strap on that LP special and just let my hands go exploring for an hour it's crazy how many great riffs I can come up with. Off the start I tended to fight the P-90's a little on certain things, but evolving a bit and learning to gel with them is turning into a really exciting phase for me.
When I'm recording, Gibson P90s will fit into more music mixes than any of their humbuckers, but when a humbucker is right there is nothing better

I love P90s! One of my favorite guitars to record with is a 2010 Historic SG Special. I love their clean tone, listen to the snap of the notes in this song...

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  #69  
Old 06-15-2022, 09:16 PM
Bushleague Bushleague is offline
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Originally Posted by rockabilly69 View Post
When I'm recording, Gibson P90s will fit into more music mixes than any of their humbuckers, but when a humbucker is right there is nothing better

I love P90s! One of my favorite guitars to record with is a 2010 Historic SG Special. I love their clean tone, listen to the snap of the notes in this song...

Very nice! That snap is what I love, though I'd put money on it that I'm often pushing my P-90's harder than allot of people (quite possibly you) run their humbuckers.

And yeah, even with my OD dialed right in and sounding glorious with those P-90's there are still major differences in how they respond compared to humbuckers. That said, sitting right on the edge of their capabilities and learning to tap into their strengths rather than fighting their shortcomings is working really well for me.

The P-90's strength is that snappy response, so learning to use open notes and string mutes to percussive effect rather than palm mutes like I would with humbuckers is taking things in interesting directions. I still use the palm mutes, but instead of it being such a dominant sound its the note that comes after that really really goes "POP". After some adjustment I can accomplish roughly the same things but the the sound and most notably the feel is of the passage tends to be much different, somehow a little more soulful maybe.

Last edited by Bushleague; 06-15-2022 at 09:30 PM.
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  #70  
Old 06-15-2022, 10:26 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bushleague View Post
Very nice! That snap is what I love, though I'd put money on it that I'm often pushing my P-90's harder than allot of people (quite possibly you) run their humbuckers.

And yeah, even with my OD dialed right in and sounding glorious with those P-90's there are still major differences in how they respond compared to humbuckers. That said, sitting right on the edge of their capabilities and learning to tap into their strengths rather than fighting their shortcomings is working really well for me.

The P-90's strength is that snappy response, so learning to use open notes and string mutes to percussive effect rather than palm mutes like I would with humbuckers is taking things in interesting directions. I still use the palm mutes, but instead of it being such a dominant sound its the note that comes after that really really goes "POP". After some adjustment I can accomplish roughly the same things but the the sound and most notably the feel is of the passage tends to be much different, somehow a little more soulful maybe.
Yep playing on the edge is where it truly gets interesting, especially when the drones of the open notes get ringing under heavy dirt, for that kind of stuff this is my axe of choice, you should hear it through a gainy amp...
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  #71  
Old 06-15-2022, 10:49 PM
Bushleague Bushleague is offline
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Originally Posted by rockabilly69 View Post
Yep playing on the edge is where it truly gets interesting, especially when the drones of the open notes get ringing under heavy dirt, for that kind of stuff this is my axe of choice, you should hear it through a gainy amp...
You got a recording?
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  #72  
Old 06-16-2022, 01:23 AM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bushleague View Post
You got a recording?

Not anything real heavy but I can make one for you! I'm gigging hard the next few days but next week I can knock one out for you

Here's some medium grit slide guitar with it though it starts at 1:42


Last edited by rockabilly69; 06-16-2022 at 01:45 AM.
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  #73  
Old 06-16-2022, 07:39 AM
J-Doug J-Doug is offline
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Thaks for all the input guys. It has been an enjoyable discussion.
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  #74  
Old 06-16-2022, 08:12 AM
Rick Jones Rick Jones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankHudson View Post
Yup. Besides tastes (which vary) how different pickups react with different amps and effects chains really make a lot of the difference in how electric guitars sound. It's not uncommon for regular sized humbuckers to be uninspiring to me, but I think that may be because my tastes, amps, and effects are by now "formatted" for single-coil pickups.

Yours has the Gibson 490/498 pair from what I see. I'm not familiar with them personally.
My LP standard that I had for years (until the headstock decided to come off in the case for some reason) had Bareknuckle 'Mule' in the neck and a Kent Armstrong PAF clone in the bridge. The 490/498 are much hotter and kind of scooped... 'metal' sounding I guess.
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  #75  
Old 06-16-2022, 12:36 PM
rmp rmp is offline
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My LP standard that I had for years (until the headstock decided to come off in the case for some reason) .
those crazy gibson headstocks! we never know when they're gonna make a run for it do we!
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