Build thread--Koa Kinnaird FS by Steve and Ryan--FINAL PICS & VIDEO ADDED--NGD!!!

[jojobean39]

This is genuinely gorgeous work. I love the logo on the back of the headstock.

What tuners are those? They’re really nice looking.

[Steve Kinnaird]

Originally Posted by jojobean39

This is genuinely gorgeous work. I love the logo on the back of the headstock.

What tuners are those? They’re really nice looking.

Thanks Jojo. We appreciate the kind word.
Schertler makes those, they are our new go-to tuners, smooth and lightweight.

Steve

[Nemoman]

Originally Posted by Steve Kinnaird

Thanks Kevin for the glowing wrap up. I’ll say again, this was a delight to build for you. Part of the luthier’s job is to remain open to new ideas while offering necessary push-back. “Yeah, that won’t work, but hey—that other thing is a good idea. And no, we’ve never done that before but it sounds interesting so let’s try it, eh?” Conversations can run in such ways.
I’ll say that Kevin’s contribution made this a better guitar, and we’re happy about that. And Kevin, you were a blast to work with so please receive our thanks. Play her in good health sir.

Steve

Thanks, Steve--the pleasure was all mine!

[Nemoman]

Thanks Tom, Jeff, and Jojobean for the comments.

It's been great getting to know this beautiful guitar. It sounds awesome now, and I can't wait to hear its voice mature throughout the coming years!

[canuck7]

Originally Posted by Steve Kinnaird

Tom, it’s a treat having you weigh in, thank you sir. I’ll enjoy hearing Kevin’s guitar at the next B.I.G. and seeing how 8 months of playing has enlarged the sound.



And thank you also Jeff! Since you are listening so carefully, I wonder if you are hearing some similarities between instruments, even with different wood combos? A familial likeness of sorts? (It’s a point that interests me quite a bit.)
Thanks,
Steve

I do think there is a huge something to the likeness of sound quality and the builder...of course, the size of the instrument, 12 fret vs 14 fret, and of course, the top wood - i.e. cedar vs spruce. But so many of the back/side woods that I like aesthetically have very similar densities and other qualities - that I've come to really appreciate how the luthier's contribution to the sound is increasingly important.

Of course, I haven't played a lot of instruments side by side, or a lot of instruments for that matter compared to most of the people contributing their views! And I've increasingly become aware that humidity changes can alter the sound quite a bit in my own experience. Not to mention that all important player - the strings!! I need to keep a written record of when I do string changes and what strings are on which guitars...the strings on my 00 B&W Ebony/Spruce right now sound quite spectacular I think. And, of course, the player/listener's hearing capabilities, which vary drastically from a physician's perspective of doing audiograms over 30 years, that people have very different frequency perceptions!!!

The other thing is that I've moved to almost all 12-fret instruments in my small collection, except for my Simon Fay AB/Sinker Redwood (the last of my 14 fret instruments). Probably mostly for ergonomic reasons, but after reading about the bridge placement on a 12 fret and how it affects sound, I think that is something to factor in. It certainly is a challenge to consider all the factors that contribute to sound - especially after reading the AGF Custom threads! Taken all those things into consideration, I still think the Luthier's contribution to sound (bracing, and working out the thickness of the top, sound or sound frequency analysis etc...) is a major factor. It all begins with the luthier's selection of wood also...so in the end, the familial likeness or heritage is definitely there!!

And, having a 'K' on the back of my headstock is huge as well!!

[Universe]

I need to look more into 12 frets. Only one I had was a Martin Black & white mahogany. Don't recall model but it was like new used from Guitar Center but I did not think it sounded as good as my guitars so why spend more than $1000 on that so I returned it.

If 12 fret enhances the bas that's great. For me it also shortens the guitar total length a bit which can be a bonus when you are really small.


Been looking at used Kinnaird's from 2007 etc older models.
Both have Adirondack tops so is a bit too much for me.

That Koa sounds magnificent but I'm still not getting everything I want to hear from Koa. It's beautiful but it just does not have than magic that takes me into another world. Koa might just not be my thing. Very pleasant but when I go back to my guitar I don't feel those chills as the chords sink into me.

Guess I like my guitar which is a GOOD thing!

Originally Posted by canuck7

I do think there is a huge something to the likeness of sound quality and the builder...of course, the size of the instrument, 12 fret vs 14 fret, and of course, the top wood - i.e. cedar vs spruce. But so many of the back/side woods that I like aesthetically have very similar densities and other qualities - that I've come to really appreciate how the luthier's contribution to the sound is increasingly important.

Of course, I haven't played a lot of instruments side by side, or a lot of instruments for that matter compared to most of the people contributing their views! And I've increasingly become aware that humidity changes can alter the sound quite a bit in my own experience. Not to mention that all important player - the strings!! I need to keep a written record of when I do string changes and what strings are on which guitars...the strings on my 00 B&W Ebony/Spruce right now sound quite spectacular I think. And, of course, the player/listener's hearing capabilities, which vary drastically from a physician's perspective of doing audiograms over 30 years, that people have very different frequency perceptions!!!

The other thing is that I've moved to almost all 12-fret instruments in my small collection, except for my Simon Fay AB/Sinker Redwood (the last of my 14 fret instruments). Probably mostly for ergonomic reasons, but after reading about the bridge placement on a 12 fret and how it affects sound, I think that is something to factor in. It certainly is a challenge to consider all the factors that contribute to sound - especially after reading the AGF Custom threads! Taken all those things into consideration, I still think the Luthier's contribution to sound (bracing, and working out the thickness of the top, sound or sound frequency analysis etc...) is a major factor. It all begins with the luthier's selection of wood also...so in the end, the familial likeness or heritage is definitely there!!

And, having a 'K' on the back of my headstock is huge as well!!

[canuck7]

Originally Posted by Universe

I need to look more into 12 frets. Only one I had was a Martin Black & white mahogany. Don't recall model but it was like new used from Guitar Center but I did not think it sounded as good as my guitars so why spend more than $1000 on that so I returned it.

If 12 fret enhances the bas that's great. For me it also shortens the guitar total length a bit which can be a bonus when you are really small.


Been looking at used Kinnaird's from 2007 etc older models.
Both have Adirondack tops so is a bit too much for me.

That Koa sounds magnificent but I'm still not getting everything I want to hear from Koa. It's beautiful but it just does not have than magic that takes me into another world. Koa might just not be my thing. Very pleasant but when I go back to my guitar I don't feel those chills as the chords sink into me.

Guess I like my guitar which is a GOOD thing!

It's a good thing you like your guitar!!
I think there are so many variables that influence sound, that just trying different 12 fret models compared to 14 fret models is extremely difficult...If you control all the variables (keep string type and age the same, top wood the same, back& side woods somewhat similar in terms of density and all the other things that make up the wood, and that it is picked out by the same luthier.....and most importantly, made by the same luthier(the key!!)) and just compare a 12 fret vs a 14 fret - then you're doing a good comparison. Obviously, the age of the guitar makes a big difference too, as the wood changes, and the luthier's techniques/build style are likely to change over time.
And then, most importantly, the guitars must be played by you, and can't be listened to on YouTube...!! Because, only you can decide what sound you're looking for!

[Universe]

Daunting.

Would be nice if there was a magic formula but when working with a unique thing like wood & turning into a musical instrument is almost alchemy.

I was hoping a 12 fret would have more low end but then again a 12 fret made one maker is not the same as a another. A 14 fret guitar might just have that tone one is looking for.

Would have to have everything the same specs by a maker & hope they will choose the stock & tweak it to get the best sound but you can tap 10 sets of koa & none of them will have the same response.

It's driving me mad.

Luckily this used H&D Koa I was considering for 6 weeks was sold.
I don't have to go crazy over it anymore. It was so beautiful & sounded really beautiful but it was missing something & that's the thing. A recording even the best is not going to replicate all the nuances.

It probably sounded even better in person but did not have what I have heard at times in YT's & my guitar is recorded on a android & I hear it & it's chillingly moving.

I guess I just want another but I'm a collector. Once I start something it's like an addiction. A guitar junkie trying to get a fix! I can't even play that well.

Feeling depressed that guitar I was thinking about sold. I could have tried it for 2 days & returned it if it did not satisfy. It's look & something about it had a hook on me. It's sol & the world is full of guitars & they are always changing hands. No need to rush...

Thanks for the advise.

Originally Posted by canuck7

It's a good thing you like your guitar!!
I think there are so many variables that influence sound, that just trying different 12 fret models compared to 14 fret models is extremely difficult...If you control all the variables (keep string type and age the same, top wood the same, back& side woods somewhat similar in terms of density and all the other things that make up the wood, and that it is picked out by the same luthier.....and most importantly, made by the same luthier(the key!!)) and just compare a 12 fret vs a 14 fret - then you're doing a good comparison. Obviously, the age of the guitar makes a big difference too, as the wood changes, and the luthier's techniques/build style are likely to change over time.
And then, most importantly, the guitars must be played by you, and can't be listened to on YouTube...!! Because, only you can decide what sound you're looking for!

[canuck7]

Originally Posted by Universe

Daunting.

Would be nice if there was a magic formula but when working with a unique thing like wood & turning into a musical instrument is almost alchemy.

I was hoping a 12 fret would have more low end but then again a 12 fret made one maker is not the same as a another. A 14 fret guitar might just have that tone one is looking for.

Would have to have everything the same specs by a maker & hope they will choose the stock & tweak it to get the best sound but you can tap 10 sets of koa & none of them will have the same response.

It's driving me mad.

Luckily this used H&D Koa I was considering for 6 weeks was sold.
I don't have to go crazy over it anymore. It was so beautiful & sounded really beautiful but it was missing something & that's the thing. A recording even the best is not going to replicate all the nuances.

It probably sounded even better in person but did not have what I have heard at times in YT's & my guitar is recorded on a android & I hear it & it's chillingly moving.

I guess I just want another but I'm a collector. Once I start something it's like an addiction. A guitar junkie trying to get a fix! I can't even play that well.

Feeling depressed that guitar I was thinking about sold. I could have tried it for 2 days & returned it if it did not satisfy. It's look & something about it had a hook on me. It's sol & the world is full of guitars & they are always changing hands. No need to rush...

Thanks for the advise.

Well, you've just related one of the many facets of GAS - guitar acquisition syndrome!! Of course, it's not practical to do the comparison study that I suggested....you just have to keep searching (in a controlled fashion that doesn't hurt the pocket book too much!!!). I always felt that I had my two guitars - a Martin D28 and a Guild, but now many years later, I've gone through as many as 12 guitars to find what I really like, and I'm sure there's more out there if I was looking hard!! It's all part of GAS! My SKinnaird 00 Black&White Ebony 12 fretter is a dream...it all started with an email to Steve about whether he had any B&W Ebony, just thinking...and it turned out he had some that he had already cut into 00 size that another person had opted out...boom! I was hooked...so there you go! I was looking for a smaller guitar, and I've also gotten guitars with larger nut widths in my playability search, so it ended up being perfect! So, in the process, 7 guitars have gone on to other players! And, I've very close to getting my GAS under control!! Having a larger nut width really controls your GAS!!

[Steve Kinnaird]

Originally Posted by Universe

Daunting…

I guess I just want another but I'm a collector. Once I start something it's like an addiction. A guitar junkie trying to get a fix! I can't even play that well.

Perhaps I could speak to this. Remember the nature of collecting: true collectors appreciate each piece in their collection for its own merits, not demanding uniformity. Think of Jay Leno’s car collection. I’m sure there are some he drives more than others, but each one has its own place and is appreciated for what it is.
If you have the sound you love in a guitar you currently possess, then count your blessings. And then you can add to your collection instruments that won’t be rivals, but more in the nature of supporting staff. Then you can say in your heart, “Sure it’s pretty—that’s why I have it—but it doesn’t sound like THIS one”. (Or however you and your heart have dialogue.)

Steve

[Steve Kinnaird]

Originally Posted by canuck7

I do think there is a huge something to the likeness of sound quality and the builder...of course, the size of the instrument, 12 fret vs 14 fret, and of course, the top wood - i.e. cedar vs spruce. But so many of the back/side woods that I like aesthetically have very similar densities and other qualities - that I've come to really appreciate how the luthier's contribution to the sound is increasingly important.
______

The other thing is that I've moved to almost all 12-fret instruments in my small collection, except for my Simon Fay AB/Sinker Redwood (the last of my 14 fret instruments). Probably mostly for ergonomic reasons, but after reading about the bridge placement on a 12 fret and how it affects sound, I think that is something to factor in. It certainly is a challenge to consider all the factors that contribute to sound - especially after reading the AGF Custom threads! Taken all those things into consideration, I still think the Luthier's contribution to sound (bracing, and working out the thickness of the top, sound or sound frequency analysis etc...) is a major factor. It all begins with the luthier's selection of wood also...so in the end, the familial likeness or heritage is definitely there!!

And, having a 'K' on the back of my headstock is huge as well!!

Thanks for your thoughts, Jeff. I had forgotten we put a logo on the back of your headstock. I’m sure that is at least as important as bridge placement! 😜

[TomB'sox]

Originally Posted by Universe

I need to look more into 12 frets. Only one I had was a Martin Black & white mahogany. Don't recall model but it was like new used from Guitar Center but I did not think it sounded as good as my guitars so why spend more than $1000 on that so I returned it.

If 12 fret enhances the bas that's great. For me it also shortens the guitar total length a bit which can be a bonus when you are really small.


Been looking at used Kinnaird's from 2007 etc older models.
Both have Adirondack tops so is a bit too much for me.

That Koa sounds magnificent but I'm still not getting everything I want to hear from Koa. It's beautiful but it just does not have than magic that takes me into another world. Koa might just not be my thing. Very pleasant but when I go back to my guitar I don't feel those chills as the chords sink into me.

Guess I like my guitar which is a GOOD thing!

I don't necessarily think of 12 vs. 14 frets in terms of bass. I think of bass more with the depth of the body and the size of the guitar along with bracing and top thickness. I am not a luthier, but those are the things I think of when discussing bass response beyond the woods of course.

A selfish plug here. If you want a way to compare instruments side by side and from various luthiers, to talk to the luthiers about woods, and bass and try 12 vs. 14 fretters side by side and have others around to discuss it with or play the guitars while you listen to them, come to B.I.G. That is exactly what happens there and Steve Kinnaird will be there with his guitars and you can talk to the man directly. There will be 30 plus instruments there to try. You will know what you like or dislike by the end of that for sure.

[Nemoman]

Originally Posted by Steve Kinnaird

Perhaps I could speak to this. Remember the nature of collecting: true collectors appreciate each piece in their collection for its own merits, not demanding uniformity. Think of Jay Leno’s car collection. I’m sure there are some he drives more than others, but each one has its own place and is appreciated for what it is.
If you have the sound you love in a guitar you currently possess, then count your blessings. And then you can add to your collection instruments that won’t be rivals, but more in the nature of supporting staff. Then you can say in your heart, “Sure it’s pretty—that’s why I have it—but it doesn’t sound like THIS one”. (Or however you and your heart have dialogue.)

Steve

YES--This hits the nail on the head for me.

I have different wood combinations on all the guitars within my collection--although I hesitate to say collection because I do play them all. I have different back/sides and top woods such that each one is unique with their own flavors and colors. And they're pretty much all different shapes and sizes...

Why not use all the crayons in the box?!