Recording progress ...

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

It sounds better without the compression to me (compression has to be very gentle, and a high quality compressor, so it's transparent, to work). It's still a somewhat harsh sound. Probably room acoustics. Or mics, if these are the Zoom built-in mics.

It is the built in mics of the Zoom. They are so convenient to use though. I can hear the harshness/lack of warmth when I compare mine to AP's. I'll have to play around with my gear and see how it works out. My mics are a Rodes NT-5, AKG Perception 150 and the MXL 990/991 set.

Something tells me that "warmth" has a price tag I may not like

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by TBman

Something tells me that "warmth" has a price tag I may not like

Feel that hole gettin' burnt in your pocket? That's warmth.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

Feel that hole gettin' burnt in your pocket? That's warmth.

Good one,

[Doug Young]

Not to discourage attempts at acoustic treatment, but you shouldn't have to go to great lengths to get a decent sound for solo guitar unless you're being very picky. Blankets, etc, won't do anything useful and can actually be harmful. Check out Ethan Winer's site for some useful tutorials on room acoustics - most issues are in lower frequencies, which blankets, foam, and so on, won't help. But for your purposes, you should be able to do OK in some room of your house with the right mic placement. Since you're using Al Petteway as a model, check out Al's most recent CD, which he recorded using an ipad in a neighbor's (enclosed, I think) porch, not at all acoustically treated. You can hear the increased room sound compared to Al's CDs recorded at his place, but it's still quite good. For solo acoustic guitar, your average furnished living room is probably fine - I say probably because every room, and even every different spot in the room is different. If you've seen Al's recording setup, its not some massively treated studio, it just looks like an average living room (with lots of guitars in it) :-) With a Zoom being used for recording, it should be pretty easy to just move around to different spots, different rooms until you get a good sound.

I've done a lot of different experiments with the Zoom and related gear that might provide some insight - or not, depending on your taste. Here's one I did not too long ago, recording in 3 different rooms, with the Zoom and internal mics. Notes say this was 1) laundry room 2) living room, 3) treated studio, all with just the internal zoom mics. If I recall, the laundry room recording was with the zoom just sitting on the dryer, the living room had the zoom sitting on an end-table, and the studio had it sitting on the studio desk, none of which were optimal placement, for sure. So basically, ranging from a really bad room to a fairly decent room with very quick and dirty mic placement.



Here's another that might help clarify the "warmth == $$" concern. This one compares the zoom with internal mics, the zoom with external good mics, and my normal (at the time) studio chain, which cost a lot more than the Zoom. I posted this as blind and I don't see a key, probably in an old post somewhere, so you'll have to guess which is which ( I think the zoom mic track is fairly obvious due to the XY mic pattern). But these are basically comparing costs of something like:

$399 Zoom alone
$2500 Zoom + external mics
$10000 Great River+Cranesong HEDD+RME Interface+computer



Here's another, the Zoom H6 with a pair of AT2020's - no better than the external mics you already have. This shows the effects of a bit of compression, before and after (If I recall, this was recorded in an untreated spare bedroom - hard walls, carpet, a futon and little else)



These aren't Al, and they're all just quick experiments, but if these tracks - the Zoom only ones or Zoom+AT2020s, sound good to you, you should be able to achieve similar sounds with what you have.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Not to discourage attempts at acoustic treatment, but you shouldn't have to go to great lengths to get a decent sound for solo guitar unless you're being very picky.

That kinda depends on the room you're starting out with.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

That kinda depends on the room you're starting out with.

Absolutely! But your average living room should (usually) be good enough for casual home recording, posting to you tube, etc (with the big assumption of solo guitar and close micing). There are obviously going to be bad cases (noise is a big one). But again, with a zoom, you can move to where you need to go, even if it's to a neighbor's house :-)

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Not to discourage attempts at acoustic treatment, but you shouldn't have to go to great lengths to get a decent sound for solo guitar unless you're being very picky. Blankets, etc, won't do anything useful and can actually be harmful. Check out Ethan Winer's site for some useful tutorials on room acoustics - most issues are in lower frequencies, which blankets, foam, and so on, won't help. But for your purposes, you should be able to do OK in some room of your house with the right mic placement. Since you're using Al Petteway as a model, check out Al's most recent CD, which he recorded using an ipad in a neighbor's (enclosed, I think) porch, not at all acoustically treated. You can hear the increased room sound compared to Al's CDs recorded at his place, but it's still quite good. For solo acoustic guitar, your average furnished living room is probably fine - I say probably because every room, and even every different spot in the room is different. If you've seen Al's recording setup, its not some massively treated studio, it just looks like an average living room (with lots of guitars in it) :-) With a Zoom being used for recording, it should be pretty easy to just move around to different spots, different rooms until you get a good sound.

I've done a lot of different experiments with the Zoom and related gear that might provide some insight - or not, depending on your taste. Here's one I did not too long ago, recording in 3 different rooms, with the Zoom and internal mics. Notes say this was 1) laundry room 2) living room, 3) treated studio, all with just the internal zoom mics. If I recall, the laundry room recording was with the zoom just sitting on the dryer, the living room had the zoom sitting on an end-table, and the studio had it sitting on the studio desk, none of which were optimal placement, for sure. So basically, ranging from a really bad room to a fairly decent room with very quick and dirty mic placement.



Here's another that might help clarify the "warmth == $$" concern. This one compares the zoom with internal mics, the zoom with external good mics, and my normal (at the time) studio chain, which cost a lot more than the Zoom. I posted this as blind and I don't see a key, probably in an old post somewhere, so you'll have to guess which is which ( I think the zoom mic track is fairly obvious due to the XY mic pattern). But these are basically comparing costs of something like:

$399 Zoom alone
$2500 Zoom + external mics
$10000 Great River+Cranesong HEDD+RME Interface+computer



Here's another, the Zoom H6 with a pair of AT2020's - no better than the external mics you already have. This shows the effects of a bit of compression, before and after (If I recall, this was recorded in an untreated spare bedroom - hard walls, carpet, a futon and little else)



These aren't Al, and they're all just quick experiments, but if these tracks - the Zoom only ones or Zoom+AT2020s, sound good to you, you should be able to achieve similar sounds with what you have.

Thanks Doug. I discovered Al's latest the other night. I bought a couple of the tabs already. I'll check out the info you provided, thank you.