Play my guitar and sing, or shut up?

[12FanMan]

I have a question for all you accomplished vocalists out there who also play guitar....
I know so little about music, that I hardly know where to begin. You see, I can't read a note of it, and never could. Suffice it to say, the current boundaries of my musical "knowedge" began and now continues with self instruction.

I taught myself to play the guitar in the early 70's after buying my first, a 12 string. Thereafter, all I've ever done is pick tunes and strum a bit here and there...alone. I'm not much further along now than I was 50 years ago.


To avoid audience-propelled missiles (tomatoes, song books, chairs etc), I've never been much of a performer. However, when singing around others, I have noticed I can carry a tune fairly well if whomever is standing on my right (next to what used to be my "good" ear) is on key.

While pondering that state of affairs, a question came floating into what's left of my mind: "Hmmmm...I wonder if I might be able to sing if the sound of my own voice was somehow piped back to my ears without overpowering my guitar?"


Over the years, I've had 2 surgeries on each ear. One left some sort of defect in what used to be my "bad ear" (which has now become my "good" ear thanks to another surgery and a quality hearing aid.) The previous surgery seems to have left me with some sort of distortion that blocks or changes the PERCEPTION of my own voice...but only when I sing. I know that sounds strange, but it's the only way I know to describe it. Without my hearing aids, my hearing loss in both ears is in the "profountly-impaired" range.


I see singers use some sort of listening device in their ear as they play and/or sing on stage. I have no idea why it's there, what it does, or what it's called. So, to those of you who play/sing on stage, is there a device that could pump the sound of my own voice back to me so I could sing on key with my own guitar? If so, that would be a joy to me, as my standard joke regarding my own voice has always been: "Even when I sing happy songs, people cry and go away."


Dare I hope or..for the safety of self and others....should I continue to play my guitar in remote solitude, and keep my mouth shut?

[Big Band Guitar]

If you have to ask, then you already know the answer.

[12FanMan]

Originally Posted by Big Band Guitar

If you have to ask, then you already know the answer.

-----------------------------------------------------------
To quote another great American philosopher (Johnny Carson):

"Not so, moose breath!"

If I know little about performing music, and even less about audio tech...there's no way I can know if my performance would improve with audio feedback.

[jeanray1113]

Originally Posted by Big Band Guitar

If you have to ask, then you already know the answer.

I don’t think this either helpful or necessarily accurate. We don’t hear our voice as others hear it, so we tend to be poor judges of our vocal talent or lack thereof. There are well known musicians who say they don’t really like their voice, and people are paying to see them and buying their recordings.For years I didn’t think I had a very good voice, but since I’ve started doing open mics I’ve got a fair amount of positive feedback.

Maybe a few voice lessons would provide you with some honest feedback and help you work on deficits. We all have them. And just as we can our playing, we can improve our singing.

[maxed]

Sorry to "hear" of your dilemma 12FanMan.

Those earpieces you see singers and performers using are in-ear monitors to hear their vocals and/or instruments, which is what I think you would need to be able to hear yourself better.

However, this involves going down rabbit holes in amplification, microphones and monitoring solutions. Do you already plug your guitar into an amp or pa?

Something like the "Rolls PM351 Personal Monitor System", the "ART MyMonitorII Personal Monitor Mixer" or other type of audio mixer with headphone outputs is where I'd start.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...monitor-system

https://www.sweetwater.com/c1114--Pe...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

You may be able to use these as stand-alone devices for practicing, since they need to be electronically powered anyway.

Good luck in your search, and Don't Stop Singing!

[Robin, Wales]

As "maxed" describes above - the system you are seeing singers use on stage is an "in ear monitor". They can ask the sound desk to run whatever instrument or voice or combination into the ear piece they feel would best help them perform. This may be guitar or keyboard to keep them on pitch plus their own voice.

It could work for you...I would suggest going to a large music store that sells these systems and trying some out.

You will need to play/sing through a mic' and have some sort of mixing desk system to get the right sound mix back to your in ear monitors. It's quite complex, with lots of rabbit holes and learning required to get it all to work.

I have another suggestion that you may like to try first.

I have a friend who is quite hearing impaired. He loves to play fiddle and banjo. When I watch him play he is "listening" to the tune in his head - not getting real time feedback. His "errors" are all to do with timing. You can get away with pitch errors but not timing errors. You can buy wearable metronomes that fit as a watch or on a chest band. These pulse the beat direct to you body, but are silent. I think that I'd be inclined to try one of those out - as keeping your playing timing and singing phrase timing on track perhaps could give you the confidence to perform. It would be like learning to "hear" kinaesthetically. Could be worth a try?

[PapaLobo]

As an Open Mic host , sound engineer and lifetime musician I'll add my 2 cents.

Have a friend take a vid on your phone of your perfomances

and / or if you have the ability , record your playing and be brutally honest with yourself.

Hone your skills at an Open Mic, when you get consistent positive feedback, take it to the next step

The biggest hurdle I consistently see is lack of confidence. That causes you to sing flat , as you are not confident in putting your full voice into it.

I've worked with artists to overcome these obstacles and usually proves successful.

[12FanMan]

Originally Posted by maxed

Sorry to "hear" of your dilemma 12FanMan.

Those earpieces you see singers and performers using are in-ear monitors to hear their vocals and/or instruments, which is what I think you would need to be able to hear yourself better.

However, this involves going down rabbit holes in amplification, microphones and monitoring solutions. Do you already plug your guitar into an amp or pa?

Something like the "Rolls PM351 Personal Monitor System", the "ART MyMonitorII Personal Monitor Mixer" or other type of audio mixer with headphone outputs is where I'd start.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...monitor-system

https://www.sweetwater.com/c1114--Pe...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

You may be able to use these as stand-alone devices for practicing, since they need to be electronically powered anyway.

Good luck in your search, and Don't Stop Singing!

-------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the insights. I just wanna know if I could sing on key better if I could hear my voice. I see it essentially as a biofeeback task. Maybe I'm wrong...but if my ear problem keeps me from hearing whether or not I'm on key....there's no way I could change my voice to match the instrument.

No..I don't plug my guitar into any sort of amp. It's loud enough as it is...sitting in my recliner.

One time years ago, I was asked to sing with a group of guys in a church. They had some speakers in front of us that projected our voices back to us. I found I was able to adjust my voice to match theirs better than if that was not the case.

[12FanMan]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

As "maxed" describes above - the system you are seeing singers use on stage is an "in ear monitor". They can ask the sound desk to run whatever instrument or voice or combination into the ear piece they feel would best help them perform. This may be guitar or keyboard to keep them on pitch plus their own voice.

It could work for you...I would suggest going to a large music store that sells these systems and trying some out.

You will need to play/sing through a mic' and have some sort of mixing desk system to get the right sound mix back to your in ear monitors. It's quite complex, with lots of rabbit holes and learning required to get it all to work.

I have another suggestion that you may like to try first.

I have a friend who is quite hearing impaired. He loves to play fiddle and banjo. When I watch him play he is "listening" to the tune in his head - not getting real time feedback. His "errors" are all to do with timing. You can get away with pitch errors but not timing errors. You can buy wearable metronomes that fit as a watch or on a chest band. These pulse the beat direct to you body, but are silent. I think that I'd be inclined to try one of those out - as keeping your playing timing and singing phrase timing on track perhaps could give you the confidence to perform. It would be like learning to "hear" kinaesthetically. Could be worth a try?

================================
I dunno enough about music to know if timing is my problem or not. Before I tackle that, I want to see if I can sing if I hear my voice. Another technique that occurred to me is...what if I wore headphones and sang along with a singer's recorded audio....taped it, took off the headphones, and see if I'm singing on key?

Whjen I turn my hearing aids way up, I have the PERCEPTION that I'm singing better, but I've yet to record and replay to see if that's actually the case.

[Mandobart]

Once again, the advice I always give because it applies to nearly all facets of playing an instrument (which inludes your vocal cords).....

Regularly play music with other people. Go to a weekly/monthly/as often as you can jam or song circle. No amps, mics, monitors, etc. Just people that enjoy supporting each other making music.

All aspects of your playing and singing will improve. Jumping straight to performing in public with IEM's is like hitting the track on a superbike before you've taken the training wheels off your bicycle.

Record yourself playing and singing along with one of your favorite songs and listen to the playback. That's how you know what you really sound like.

[Jeffreykip]

I will always stick to the sunny opinion that everyone can sing, maybe even everyoneshould sing. I once heard someone say that if a person can hear the difference in two notes, then they can learn to sing, which sounds generous but logical. That said, I am well aware that there are some singers who sound best when their voice is lost in a large group sing-along, but you can still sing for yourself, for campfires, for friends, or in that aforementioned sing-along.

As a singer, (not pro, but performing soloist, self-critical but comfortable) here few things singers do that might help:

1) When practicing, singers cup their hand around their ear with the heel of the hand near the mouth so that you can hear your own voice. All trained singers do this, especially with others or when there is an especially challenging part, even if it looks a little funny. It's like the ear mics you mention, but way easier and cheaper. It definitely helps you learn vocal control.

2) Showers and tiled rooms (stairwells) are really gratifying and useful for hearing yourself sing. I don't mean taking a shower, but just standing in front of it while you sing. Unlike cupping your ear, you can play guitar at the same time, too. You can really hear yourself and adjust. You can even just face into an open corner of a room and really listen to the wall in front of you and get a good sense of your voice.

3) Practice singing without the guitar, or with minimal strumming and focus just on your voice. Voice takes focus, just like an instrument. I do whole rehearsals where I just sing so I am only thinking about my voice.

4) Sing more. Your voice definitely gets better the more you sing. Way better. Like the difference between a person running a 10k who never runs, and a person who runs three times a week. Warm up with something easy and gratifying, don't sing in a key that doesn't fit your voice (learn to love the capo), and be happy with what you got - some people are born with an amazing timbre to their voice, but not everyone (not me), but you can still enjoy it.

The earpieces you mention are for stadium singers or those playing in loud spaces, and often they don't like them because it doesn't feel natural (didn't you see A Star is Born?). You can sing through an amp and point it back at yourself effectively, but I am all about practicing rather than shopping and spending. You wouldn't suggest someone stop playing basketball just because they were not born tall enough to dunk, and you wouldn't tell them to buy new shoes- you'd just tell them to practice.

[rmp]

Almost everyone has a usable voice

The trick is finding out how we as individuals can get the most out of it.


Sounds to me like you want to get a 12 channel mixer. Plug your guitar and mic into it.

Work with that to practice singing guitar/vocal arrangements.

most of these mixers have built in effects so you can add what ever you want to enhance the sound like reverb for example. don't need but the ambience that can add makes it a bit more fun.

[Mbroady]

Originally Posted by rmp

Almost everyone has a usable voice

The trick is finding out how we as individuals can get the most out of it.

.

I love the idea of a voice being usable and finding out how to get the most out of your voice, as opposed to being great or even good.
A good voice teacher can do that.


On a side note
Imagine if someone told Bob Dylan that he should not sing, and he listened to them. There would have been some of the greatest songs of a generation never heard, or written.

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by Mbroady

On a side note
Imagine if someone told Bob Dylan that he should not sing, and he listened to them. There would have been some of the greatest songs of a generation never heard, or written.

There have been many great songwriters writing songs for others that they don't perform themselves (Robert Hunter, John Barlow, Felice and Boudleaux Bryant, Barry Mann and Cynthia Weill, Dan Penn, Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller, etc.).

Who's to say Dylan wouldn't have written anything unless he personally performed/recorded it? And, there are a few artists who do Dylan songs way better than Dylan (Joan Baez, Jimi Hendrix, Sullivan Tuttle...).

[Mbroady]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

Who's to say Dylan wouldn't have written anything unless he personally performed/recorded it?

Yep, who’s to say. And who’s to say he would have. Fortunately we don’t have to wonder