The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #16  
Old 01-12-2021, 12:29 PM
LiveMusic LiveMusic is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Louisiana, USA
Posts: 967
Default

Now this is seriously cool, lol. Reminds me of a gameshow. I wonder if this was ever used on tv!

I have never known of a song with two bass lines but I don't play bass!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
It's a niche thing, usually. The instrumental break on "Wichita Lineman" is probably one of these Fenders. And Harold Bradley used a Danelectro model with a hunk-o-rubber mute on most of his brother Owen's productions in the so-called "tic tac" style, doubling the upright bass. You'll also hear it on pretty much every (cringe along with me) Bert Kaempfert record -- it's really easy to hear on this one because the upright and the 6-string are panned to opposite sides:



Compare and contrast with the Billy May version!

Both the Beatles and Cream supposedly used the Fender on occasion in the more typical bass-guitar role, but I couldn't tell you what songs.
__________________
Bill
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-12-2021, 12:55 PM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 2,513
Default

I've used BIAB and the Trio pedal. They both use similar tech (Digitech licensed BIAB elements for the Trio). As with many "I'll magically figure out what you're doing" things, it may guess oddly about what to supply for bass lines. Sometimes those odd choices can be inspirational, sometime you'll need to "teach" it differently, or ask it to try again. Though I've used tracks from them in recordings, I generally don't. I do think they are both great tools though for practice and learning to play through changes.

For guitar players there's a lot to be said for just getting a bass, which is what I did. How soon can you start playing acceptable simple lines? Depends, but some guitarists with good time feel can be doing it very quickly. How soon will you become a great bass player? That's not assured, but even though it's a cliché from bass-only players of the "guitarist who thinks they are a bass player" some great bass players started off on guitar: Paul McCartney has already been mentioned, and in another thread I'm reminded of the legendary session bassist Carol Kaye.

A lot of great electric bass on recordings is "DI", meaning no amp was used. I like the DI options offered in Logic Pro X (and I think they're also in the free Garageband) for a lot of bass tracks, so you don't need anything that your DAW may not have like a stand-alone bass amp or extra-cost amp modeling software.

I have one of those Squier Bass VI models. I'll double what Steve said upthread. Some use it with appropriate strings as baritone guitar (tuned B to B usually), but I have it at E to E (one octave down). Bari guitar players can, and do, chord all six strings--though what voicings to use is a matter of art/taste. Typically bass lines are played as single notes and double stops on a regular bass or the Bass VI, and tuned E to E, the Bass VI just gives you an additional upper register over a conventional bass. Just as Steve said in his post, I, as someone who writes bowed string parts for my stuff, I think of it as an instrument with an additional cello or viola range. Or you could think of it as Leo Fender's take on the viola da gamba.

One drawback: the low E string is a bit tough to get good intonation set on the Squier Bass VI.

There are other low and moderate priced electric basses out there. My teenager used a Ibanez TMB100, which for under $200 is a valid instrument with very powerful active circuit pickups (teenager into late 20th century indie/punk, so this suited them fine).

Not as inexpensive, but I'm a huge fan of the Epiphone Jack Casaday bass. The complete opposite of the Hofner Beatle-bass copies Steve pointed out: not compact and not light, but actually designed with significant input from it's legendary name-sake. Sounds great, and sits well with acoustic guitar as one might expect from the Hot Tuna connection.

If you have little space and would like to fake more of a standup bass sound, the various piezo pickup uke basses around are an option. Super short scale and easy on the fingers I think they are great deal of fun. Once again you aren't going to chord them so much as pluck single notes and double stops. The cheap ones aren't built as lifetime instruments, but they sound all right when recorded.
__________________
Parlando - Where Music and Words Meet
-----------------------------------
20th Century Seagull S6-12, S6 Folk, Seagull M6
'00 Guild JF30-12, '01 Martin 00-15, '07 Parkwood PW510
Epiphone Biscuit resonator, Merlin Dulcimer, and various electric guitars, basses....
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-12-2021, 01:40 PM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 2,513
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post

Both the Beatles and Cream supposedly used the Fender on occasion in the more typical bass-guitar role, but I couldn't tell you what songs.
I think most of the Fresh Cream album is the Fender Bass VI that the current Squier model is a copy of. Jack Bruce is using it in the bass register for the most part, but then he is Jack Bruce in a high-energy power trio format so there's a lot of notes coming out of him.

Another famous user is Robert Smith of The Cure. Here's concert clip where the idea of using it for parts above the conventional bass register is demonstrated, as there's already a bass player holding down the low end.

__________________
Parlando - Where Music and Words Meet
-----------------------------------
20th Century Seagull S6-12, S6 Folk, Seagull M6
'00 Guild JF30-12, '01 Martin 00-15, '07 Parkwood PW510
Epiphone Biscuit resonator, Merlin Dulcimer, and various electric guitars, basses....
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-12-2021, 01:42 PM
DukeX DukeX is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: SoCal
Posts: 3,113
Default

https://www.spectrasonics.net/produc...lian/index.php

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveMusic View Post
Say, first, I don't play bass.

This is for guitar/vocal recordings. For recording what would probably end up being 'work tape' recordings, is there any way I could automatically add a bass line to an acoustic guitar track? Like, it would recognize the chords and play a bass line or let me choose from several styles/rhythms? If so, is it hardware or software or both?

If this does not exist, is there something similar that would generate a bass line from me playing the chords on a keyboard?

Sorry for ignorance on this!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-12-2021, 02:04 PM
cliff_the_stiff's Avatar
cliff_the_stiff cliff_the_stiff is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 712
Default Double pickup

I was in Cliffden Ireland watching some young kids called “Hightime” who were a fantastic trio on harp, guitar and whistles and such.
Check them out for fantastic trad tunes in DADGAD.
I noticed that they had a super tight bassline and couldn’t believe that they were playing so tight with a clicktrack.
They weren’t.
The guitar player was capo on 3 or 4, but he had a single string pickup installed- He ran it through an octave pedal and presto.
If you look really close yo can see the pickup on the soundhole periphery.
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg 568D29C0-6F42-4075-A55A-82591E983B82.jpeg (33.3 KB, 57 views)
__________________
___________________
“Impossible to see, the future is.”
~Yoda
For Sale: Waterloo JK
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-12-2021, 03:00 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,355
Default

I really didn't pay much attention to the bass until heard Michael Manring playing on some of the early John Gorka material. He was using the bass not just to fill out the bottom but as a melodic instrument. It really opened my eyes ...or ears ...both, maybe. I started paying more attention and I can write pretty good bass lines these days. But as someone already said, it's really a different mindset and because I have zero training on the instrument, I do have to hunt a bit for what works when my first idea doesn't sit right.
__________________
Jim
2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood
2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar
2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce
2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce
1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce


SoundCloud link
Spotify
YouTube
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-12-2021, 03:06 PM
cliff_the_stiff's Avatar
cliff_the_stiff cliff_the_stiff is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 712
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Being a good bass player, I'd like to think my work is worth more than coffee and snacks. Quid pro quo, at the very least, in the form of guitar-playing or singing or studio services.

Also, good guitar players who learn to "think in bass" are taking a first step toward being good arrangers. When you're "thinking in bass," you're "thinking in lines," not chords, which will make you a better writer and arranger and make your songs and recordings sound more complete and polished than 99% of what you hear from DIY singer-songwriters.
I’ve started practicing bass regularly and it’s benefit to me has been unbelievable. I am better at all aspects of hearing the music, both with a bass or guitar, than before I started lessons.
__________________
___________________
“Impossible to see, the future is.”
~Yoda
For Sale: Waterloo JK
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-12-2021, 04:36 PM
tbeltrans tbeltrans is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 6,131
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Being a good bass player, I'd like to think my work is worth more than coffee and snacks. Quid pro quo, at the very least, in the form of guitar-playing or singing or studio services.

Also, good guitar players who learn to "think in bass" are taking a first step toward being good arrangers. When you're "thinking in bass," you're "thinking in lines," not chords, which will make you a better writer and arranger and make your songs and recordings sound more complete and polished than 99% of what you hear from DIY singer-songwriters.
This is a KEY concept, so important for arranging! I have long been dissatisfied with my own arrangements for solo guitar. Finally, I am realizing that "grips" (i.e. those memorized chord shapes) are where my limitations have been. Learning to think in lines, rather than grips, and "horizontally" along the frets rather than "vertically" in boxes across the frets really opens things up musically. A chord shape is really nothing more than a snapshot in time, a vertical slice, of where voices are at that moment.

I know this isn't new to a number of fine players around here, and they are probably wondering what took me so long to figure this out, but it is definitely a "Eureka" moment for me.

Tony


Tony
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-12-2021, 06:28 PM
Staredge Staredge is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 318
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Good bass players 'think' in 'Bass' (I think in guitar), and make guitarists sound better.
There’s something to that. I’m a mediocre bass player, but it really is a different mindset.



Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveMusic View Post
Whomever offered to play for me, thanks very much but I don't have anything ready, it's just a general question to investigate because it's an ongoing need.
No problem. Hit me up if you need one. It’s always fun to see what I can come up with, and I’m looking for things to do musically these days. I’m not great, but I can always use a chance to learn. I am set up to record.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-12-2021, 09:02 PM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,760
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeBmusic View Post
I agree with the others - get yourself an inexpensive bass and start doing your own tracks. It's easier than you think to do basic root note accompaniments, then you will quickly move onto more advanced playing.
This!

I highly recommend a short scale bass and an inexpensive amp such as the Fender Rumble 40, or preferably the Rumble 100.

Most of the short scales are 30" and are easy for guitarists to feel comfortable with. The Ibanez Mikro is another great short scale bass.

Coming from the bass as a guitar player the problem is often over-playing. Watch a fe introductory Youtube "How to play bass" videos and play along with a few tunes to get the feel for providing a solid bottom based on 1-5 playing, leaving a LOT of room for what will be added later.

When you're doing basic accompaniment remember, "Less is more".

I have a simple bass plugged into one side of my looper pedal and routed to my Rumble 100. I've spent a LOT of hours laying down simple guitar and bass backup tracks to play to!
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-13-2021, 05:34 AM
LiveMusic LiveMusic is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Louisiana, USA
Posts: 967
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy4 View Post
...

and play along with a few tunes to get the feel for providing a solid bottom based on 1-5 playing, leaving a LOT of room for what will be added later...
Are you referring to the 1 and 5 chords in a common progression?
__________________
Bill
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-13-2021, 09:40 AM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,760
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveMusic View Post
Are you referring to the 1 and 5 chords in a common progression?
Related to the 1-5 notes in the Circle of Fifths, but refers to the root and fifth interval which is the most basic of bass patterns. The alternating pattern between the 1 and 5 note is probably the most commonly heard pattern for bass playing and you'll be introduced to it in most "first lessons" for playing bass.

Tie the 1-5 alternation in with a short climb note progression based on your key signiture and you'll be about 90% of the way to doing simple bass accompaniment.

Everything else is icing for the cake.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-13-2021, 09:42 AM
Chipotle Chipotle is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,058
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Being a good bass player, I'd like to think my work is worth more than coffee and snacks.
I'm sure you've seen the joke going around that says, "The hole in an acoustic guitar is used for storing soft cheeses and dried meats, which can be used to feed the bass player when he does a good job."

For LiveMusic, even if you just play chords, you have the start of a bass line. The bass often outlines the chords, so you can use the bottom four notes of a guitar chord as a starting point.

I believe Rudy4 is referring to the 1 and 5 notes of a given chord as often being prominent in the bass line. So if you have, say, an A chord, you'd play A and E--bottom string 5th fret, next string 7th fret... which happens to also be the bottom two notes of an A barre chord at the 5th fret.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-13-2021, 06:54 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Coastal Washington State
Posts: 35,075
Default

I messed around a lot with Band in a Box when it first came out in about 1990. I found it helpful in many ways, particularly as a songwriting tool. I rarely used anything that came out of Band in a Box in a recording because I thought their accompaniment sounded really hokey and stiff, though their jazz oriented stuff worked fairly well.

However, for the fun of it, I invested in Band in a Box 2021 just a week ago, and I have to admit, they have really improved this program. For $99 I think it's worth the cost just to have it available as a learning tool.

I would recommend giving Band in a Box a try. They have a huge number of YouTube tutorials available to help you understand how to use the program in your computer and the sound and quality of their accompaniment is dramatically improved over the past with their use of "real tracks," actual recordings from real players. The tutorials let you hear what these accompaniments sound like. They sound even better inside a computer based DAW, as I have found this week.

As others have suggested, getting a real bass to learn is also extremely helpful. I bought a bass 10 years ago, and while it took a while for me to screw up my courage to start working on this instrument, it has taught me a lot. You could use Band in a Box to give you ideas of what to play on your bass and use it as a learning tool. The truth is, though, that once you learn Band in a Box -- and it does not take very long to learn it -- you may find that you'll be happy with the bass lines they provide.

Another thing that is very cool is that they have made Band in a Box so that it functions as a "plugin" to most available computer based DAWs on the market. I use Cubase and it works extremely well as a plugin so that you can generate a variety of tracks and extract them as tracks in your DAW so you can use reverb, equalization, change relative volume levels, use tempo tracks, etc.

I like learning songs from the American Songbook and working them out on guitar for accompaniment with voice. But many of these songs are quite a bit more challenging than the less sophisticated, simpler music we grew up with. It can be hard at times for me to understand how these songs flow. Band in a Box is really good at jazz oriented music and has helped me over and over again to figure out how to build a good guitar accompaniment to many of these songs. In fact, PG Music, who makes and sells Band in a Box, even has pre-programmed songs for all the songs in the Jazz Real Book Fakebook. Cost is $127.

I balked at spending $127, but if a person were going to make a study of a lot of older jazz songs, this is not a bad price to pay for all the work that has gone into putting these accompaniments together.

- Glenn
__________________
My You Tube Channel

Last edited by Glennwillow; 01-13-2021 at 07:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > RECORD

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=