Arm/Hand Problems-Suggestions Please

[Steadfastly]

Several years ago I broke my shoulder in three places. Subsequently, I lost about 5-7 degrees of rotation in my left fretting hand. Fretting the first few frets for any length of time puts strain on my arm and wrist and it tires easier than it used to. Do you have any suggestions that would help me? I have thought of a capo but don't know if that is a real solution. Would a guitar with a shorter scale help and how much? What about a 12 fret vs a 14 fret neck? Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

[bluesfreek]

Sorry to hear you're having hand/arm problems. Have you considered nylon string or does it have to be steel string? Shorter scale would be less tension?

[JerryM]

A shorter scale reduces string tension especially under 25" which in turn results in much lighter pressure needed to fret the strings.
A 12 fret neck brings the left arm in towards the body more reducing the reach out and this is further emphasized in combination with short scale.
The combination of these two factors results in a much more friendly instrument for someone with hand or arm wrist problems. Won't cure it but can certainly contribute to more comfort.
I have suffered with neck and hand injury for years, I find the 12 fret short scale dreadnought the Perfect guitar. I like to retain the dread large body in a slope or round shoulder as my right arm has a comfy place to rest and the guitars sit on your lap with out bending or slumping making the left arm bend at the elbow and the forearm straight out to the neck.
Small body guitars make me slump unless I use a neck up or some other gadget and I find them bothersome. So Yes it would most likely make your situation at least somewhat easier to live with,,,,,IMO

[bluesfreek]

Originally Posted by JerryM

A shorter scale reduces string tension especially under 25" which in turn results in much lighter pressure needed to fret the strings.
A 12 fret neck brings the left arm in towards the body more reducing the reach out and this is further emphasized in combination with short scale.
The combination of these two factors results in a much more friendly instrument for someone with hand or arm wrist problems. Won't cure it but can certainly contribute to more comfort.
I have suffered with neck and hand injury for years, I find the 12 fret short scale dreadnought the Perfect guitar. I like to retain the dread large body in a slope or round shoulder as my right arm has a comfy place to rest and the guitars sit on your lap with out bending or slumping making the left arm bend at the elbow and the forearm straight out to the neck.
Small body guitars make me slump unless I use a neck up or some other gadget and I find them bothersome. So Yes it would most likely make your situation at least somewhat easier to live with,,,,,IMO

I wonder if the Martin D Jr. with it's short scale and smaller body would be a good alternative? It also has a 1 3/4 " nut width.

[Steadfastly]

While nylon string might be less tension, I don't have any problems with hand gripping strength. However, the 12 fret with the shorter scale seems like it might be the way for me to go. Thanks for your suggestions.

Now, any suggestions on a short scale, 12 fretter in a dreadnought body with a 1 3/4-1 7/8" nut?

[JohnC88]

If you are experiencing discomfort it shouldn’t be related to a previous loss of mobility. Especially if you have been symptom free for a period of time after the original injury. You may have some new issue which may or may not be related to your prior issue. I’d suggest seeing an orthopedic doctor. Having had serious shoulder issues/surgeries that I am still dealing with I speak from experience.

[Steadfastly]

Originally Posted by JohnC88

If you are experiencing discomfort it shouldn’t be related to a previous loss of mobility. Especially if you have been symptom free for a period of time after the original injury. You may have some new issue which may or may not be related to your prior issue. I’d suggest seeing an orthopedic doctor. Having had serious shoulder issues/surgeries that I am still dealing with I speak from experience.

This does not apply. As I said, I broke my shoulder in three places. I have never been symptom free. They put it back together and I have a plate and 9 screws in there. I will never get full mobility back. The surgeon was very surprised I have the mobility I do have but since I work with my hands and arms, that was likely the best physio I could have had. The hand specialists couldn't believe how quickly I got my hand mobility back either as they had not seen such a quick recovery. But when I explained I am a window cleaner and have a large route, they attributed the quick recovery to my work ethic.

So, you may have experience but your experience is nothing like mine. But thank you for your post.

[JohnC88]

Originally Posted by Steadfastly

This does not apply. As I said, I broke my shoulder in three places. I have never been symptom free. They put it back together and I have a plate and 9 screws in there. I will never get full mobility back. The surgeon was very surprised I have the mobility I do have but since I work with my hands and arms, that was likely the best physio I could have had. The hand specialists couldn't believe how quickly I got my hand mobility back either as they had not seen such a quick recovery. But when I explained I am a window cleaner and have a large route, they attributed the quick recovery to my work ethic.

So, you may have experience but your experience is nothing like mine. But thank you for your post.

I wish you well, but I doubt changing guitars will solve anything.

[jrb715]

A short scale guitar with a manageable neck should make everything easier. After shoulder surgery (right shoulder) I went looking for a guitar that would make playing the guitar possible again. My Martin HD28 was pretty much unmanageable: just too painful to play. I found myself a short scale Collings OM with a neck that seemed much easier to navigate. The Collings was much more than I had budgeted for a guitar, but it simply worked better than anything else I had tried. Moreover, I have some arthritis in my left, fretting hand, and the combination of the Collings neck and short scale made it entirely go away when playing.

This is not a recommendation to buy a Collings, but, instead, a suggestion to find a short scale with a neck that makes fretting and moving on the fret board easier. This could well be a Taylor or maybe a Martin 000. (Playing around on Taylor necks first gave me the feedback that neck and scale might solve the problems I was having--and I still think the Taylor neck was as effortless as anything else I tried.) I understand that your issue is your left shoulder, but I think that you might well be helped by finding the neck, nut width, scale combination that makes the guitar not only playable again, but also fun and enjoyable again.

[Jackson T]

I have no experience with them, but how about a baritone guitar with lighter gauge strings and capo up the neck to a comfortable position.

[lowrider]

Have you tried a Dread Jr? It is a lot less reach and I like mine so much, it's the one I grab all the time when I'm going out to play!

[Nicolas]

I would think the problem is more related to your posture rather than the particular instrument.

I don't know how exactly do you play and couldn't provide an exact suggestion. But before rushing to buy a new instrument, consider the way you sit and hold your guitar when playing. The classical guitar posture is quite ergonomic.

You mention you have a problem with arm *rotation* and experience problems with the lower positions, so presumably when trying to move the fretting hand further to the left? So if you hold the neck at a slight angle (not horizontally), there should be less strain?

[Manothemtns]

Originally Posted by Steadfastly

This does not apply. As I said, I broke my shoulder in three places. I have never been symptom free. They put it back together and I have a plate and 9 screws in there. I will never get full mobility back. The surgeon was very surprised I have the mobility I do have but since I work with my hands and arms, that was likely the best physio I could have had. The hand specialists couldn't believe how quickly I got my hand mobility back either as they had not seen such a quick recovery. But when I explained I am a window cleaner and have a large route, they attributed the quick recovery to my work ethic.

So, you may have experience but your experience is nothing like mine. But thank you for your post.

I'm sorry to hear of your predicament. I just had my third spine surgery and have lost enough mobility and have been in enough pain that playing either standing or sitting for any period longer than fifteen minutes has, for the past two years, become unbearable. I play both electric and acoustic but have been relegated to playing soley acoustic while propped up by pillows in bed. I'm fifty-seven and otherwise in great health but my back is one hundred. My third surgery was just two weeks ago and I'm praying for enough relief to be able to at least play in a comfortable chair for an hour. We'll see in six months! In reality, few people know what it's like to lose much but continue on in the struggle to at least keep playing guitar as a regular part of daily life. I've always felt grateful as I didn't find "guitar" until recovering from my first reconstructive spine surgery just eight short years ago. Just to play in less than excruciating pain is my hope. I, like you, (I would venture to guess) am not seeking pity or sympathy, only solutions) and I mention all of this only because I can empathize (earnestly...the real deal kind) with your situation. I've found that when dealing with physical limitations the pluses of playing a short scale guitar are magnified. Things I now realize I'd not likely have paid much mind to with my younger, more fluid body. A twelve fret guitar won't provide the same freedom of movement as the body itself is longer relative to the guitar's overall length, making any real difference inconsequential. In terms of wrist angle, it's essentially a wash with a fourteen fret guitar. Put another way, it won't change the angle at which you must apply your fretting hand but a short scale guitar will allow you to more effectively use your reach and elbow, thereby cutting down on the amount of wrist turn required on a full scale guitar. I'm a mechanical engineer, so this is intuitive for me. I suggest playing some short scale (25-inches or less) guitars and see if what I'm saying applies to your specific case. Things like vibrato, bending, and barre chords become easier because of the lessened string tension and shortened overall length of the guitar. Again, a half to three quarters of an inch matters more than what might seem intuitive. Mathematically, the difference is closer to zero than it is to significant.

Also, a guitar with a neck and fingerboard with a serious compound radius as you move up the register will invariably help (I'm almost certain of this...thus the word "invariably"). Collings has such neck/fingerboard options and I'm sure their are others.

Good luck with your playing. Better days may be on the way to a guitar next door! Eric

[Steadfastly]

Originally Posted by Nicolas

I would think the problem is more related to your posture rather than the particular instrument.

I don't know how exactly do you play and couldn't provide an exact suggestion. But before rushing to buy a new instrument, consider the way you sit and hold your guitar when playing. The classical guitar posture is quite ergonomic.

You mention you have a problem with arm *rotation* and experience problems with the lower positions, so presumably when trying to move the fretting hand further to the left? So if you hold the neck at a slight angle (not horizontally), there should be less strain?

Yes, I do that and it helps, obviously. However, that doesn't give me back the rotation I have lost.

[Steadfastly]

Originally Posted by Manothemtns

I'm sorry to hear of your predicament. I just had my third spine surgery and have lost enough mobility and have been in enough pain that playing either standing or sitting for any period longer than fifteen minutes has, for the past two years, become unbearable. I play both electric and acoustic but have been relegated to playing soley acoustic while propped up by pillows in bed. I'm fifty-seven and otherwise in great health but my back is one hundred. My third surgery was just two weeks ago and I'm praying for enough relief to be able to at least play in a comfortable chair for an hour. We'll see in six months! In reality, few people know what it's like to lose much but continue on in the struggle to at least keep playing guitar as a regular part of daily life. I've always felt grateful as I didn't find "guitar" until recovering from my first reconstructive spine surgery just eight short years ago. Just to play in less than excruciating pain is my hope. I, like you, (I would venture to guess) am not seeking pity or sympathy, only solutions) and I mention all of this only because I can empathize (earnestly...the real deal kind) with your situation. I've found that when dealing with physical limitations the pluses of playing a short scale guitar are magnified. Things I now realize I'd not likely have paid much mind to with my younger, more fluid body. A twelve fret guitar won't provide the same freedom of movement as the body itself is longer relative to the guitar's overall length, making any real difference inconsequential. In terms of wrist angle, it's essentially a wash with a fourteen fret guitar. Put another way, it won't change the angle at which you must apply your fretting hand but a short scale guitar will allow you to more effectively use your reach and elbow, thereby cutting down on the amount of wrist turn required on a full scale guitar. I'm a mechanical engineer, so this is intuitive for me. I suggest playing some short scale (25-inches or less) guitars and see if what I'm saying applies to your specific case. Things like vibrato, bending, and barre chords become easier because of the lessened string tension and shortened overall length of the guitar. Again, a half to three quarters of an inch matters more than what might seem intuitive. Mathematically, the difference is closer to zero than it is to significant.

Also, a guitar with a neck and fingerboard with a serious compound radius as you move up the register will invariably help (I'm almost certain of this...thus the word "invariably"). Collings has such neck/fingerboard options and I'm sure their are others.

Good luck with your playing. Better days may be on the way to a guitar next door! Eric

Thanks for that "invariably" intuitive and insightful post, Eric. I have been thinking about this for a long time and should have done something about it 12 or 13 years ago. It's not that I can't play but I tire sooner than I wish and some of the reaches are more difficult than normal. I think I am going to follow up on your suggestions and see where it gets me.

I hope you get some relief for your back as well. I have a friend who just had his third back surgery and it did give him some relief.