American made?

[redcloud]

Geesh, we spend too much time on this forum worrying about the cost of each others guitars or where they were made. We should be buying the ones we can afford; buying the ones that please us from a tonal or playability standpoint; and play the darn things!

Scott

[GuitarVlog]

Consumer-activism is a valid form of protest and, in more ways than one, we all tend to practice it. Maybe you buy "green". Perhaps you refuse to buy product from companies that engage in dubious labor or business practices.

Country-exclusion consumer activism is yet another way of buying according to your personal values. Are you sympathetic to the repression in Tibet? Maybe you won't buy from China. Are you concerned about the illegal and unsustainable harvesting of rosewood from Madagascar to make guitars? Well, that's another reason not to buy from China. What if you could directly associate the drug-killings in Mexico with a particular product that you buy from there? Might you not stop buying it to put those cartels out of business? Hypothetically, what if Iran made excellent guitars for 10% the price? (Yes. Yes. I did say hypothetically.)

I haven't lately engaged in any consumer activism targeted at any particular countries but I see nothing silly about rick375's preferences.

Who knows? Something might happen in the future that will also drive me to exclusively buy American.

[dosland]

Originally Posted by GuitarVlog

I haven't lately engaged in any consumer activism targeted at any particular countries but I see nothing silly about rick375's preferences.

Who knows? Something might happen in the future that will also drive me to exclusively buy American.

I have nothing against rick375's preferences, I am simply annoyed by some of the comments suggesting that we should all live according to someone else's rules. Or that one person's opinion is worth less than another's because they don't share the same values...

[silverfox103]

I know it's not easy all the time to buy American, but I try. I don't have to mention the economy and close to 10% unemployment, not good.

I know there are very good foreign made guitars such as our Canadian friends and the Japanese; but don't put the "made in China" guitars in that same class. Don't fool yourself, they are not.

When you see "made in China", you don't think of quality and craftsmanship.

I can't understand why there are guys on this forum who "pee their pants" when they talk about Ken Hill New World guitars. Check ebay, you see them there all the time. They are usually about a year old. Does that tell you anything?

Anyways, my 2 cents.

Tom C.

[rick375]

I did not mean for this to turn into a battle of countries. For anyone here that has issues with me wanting to buy American, its my choice. I purchace stuff made in China, we almost have to but doesn't mean I have to like it. I will probably be buying and import guitar,probably from Spain. Its not that I don't like other countries its just that I like seeing my friends go to work and not have there house forclosed, getting along with my wife and not fighting about money, and enjoying time with my friends instead of staying in because noone has any money. I worry about peoples kids having jobs when they get older. Yada yada, this is about guitars not countries.

Since I have your attention, has anyone had experiance with the Manuel Rodriguez model E? I cannot find any decent info on this guitar.

[rick375]

Originally Posted by dosland

I have nothing against rick375's preferences, I am simply annoyed by some of the comments suggesting that we should all live according to someone else's rules. Or that one person's opinion is worth less than another's because they don't share the same values...

Noone is telling anyone to live by someone elses rules. We all have our own values and no opinion is ever worth less than someone elses, just like there are no stupid questions.

[rick375]

Originally Posted by GuitarVlog

Consumer-activism is a valid form of protest and, in more ways than one, we all tend to practice it. Maybe you buy "green". Perhaps you refuse to buy product from companies that engage in dubious labor or business practices.

Country-exclusion consumer activism is yet another way of buying according to your personal values. Are you sympathetic to the repression in Tibet? Maybe you won't buy from China. Are you concerned about the illegal and unsustainable harvesting of rosewood from Madagascar to make guitars? Well, that's another reason not to buy from China. What if you could directly associate the drug-killings in Mexico with a particular product that you buy from there? Might you not stop buying it to put those cartels out of business? Hypothetically, what if Iran made excellent guitars for 10% the price? (Yes. Yes. I did say hypothetically.)

I haven't lately engaged in any consumer activism targeted at any particular countries but I see nothing silly about rick375's preferences.

Who knows? Something might happen in the future that will also drive me to exclusively buy American.

Thank you!

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by silverfox103

but don't put the "made in China" guitars in that same class. Don't fool yourself, they are not.

When you see "made in China", you don't think of quality and craftsmanship.

I can agree with that for a lot of things, but unfortunately, in the case of guitars it's not so cut and dry anymore--for example, Gitane and Eastman. The Gitanes are a mass produced Chinese product that is very high quality, and that actually has no American competition (not that American companies couldn't compete, it's just currently, no one does with that particular style of guitar)

Then you have Eastman, which fill a niche also not filled by any American guitar companies--a fully carved archtop that's mass-produced.

I was painted as the import driving, Chinese guitar buying fool pretty quickly in this thread, and I'll be striaght with you--that pissed me off, and it's not true. I don't take kindly to anyone who labels me without knowing a lick about me.

I buy what I can afford that gives me the quality I need, which means, like I said before, I own American made guitars as well as guitars made elsewhere in the world. I feel no need to defend the purchases other than to say that I bought the best instrument available for the money I had the liberty to spend.

I'm not exactly a veteran of the AGF, but I notice that you and Rick375 are not as well. In my few months here, I've found this to be a polite, informative, GLOBAL community. And like anywhere, when posts turn to politics, they go south quickly.

That's all I have to say about this--I apologize if somehow my first remark sent it this way--but I still stand behind it. There are amazing small builders in the US making nylon string guitars. The options for an American made, or North American made guitar of high quality on the OP's budget are very slim, and truthfully--I'd play a Spanish made Ramirez, higher end Cordoba and quite a few others over a Taylor or Martin nylon string any day of the week.

[JohnZ]

Originally Posted by rick375

Are there any good classical guitars made in America in the $1000 to $1500 range? I saw Kenny Hills entry levels but they are made in China.

It used to be that Guild took care of that end of the market very well with the Mark series, but they only sell the Chinese made GAD series now. You might consider a used Mark II through V and have some money left over.

[silverfox103]

Being a 61 year old dinosaur is not easy. I know the selection of US made products is getting smaller every day. Seeing the manufacturing industry of the US go down the drain along with the jobs really bothers me being an American. "Made in China" lights me up! They flood our markets and buy nothing from the US (trade deficit). Unfortunately, when I see a similar posting, it will probably happen again.

I have no problem with buying a guitar from a country who is a fair trading partner.

I apologize about the foreign car comment.

Anyways, I hope Rick finds a guitar that he is happy with. One other option is Guild's Mark series of classical guitars from the 70's and 80's. They are quality made US guitars and can be bought from $300 to $1000. They are a great buy.

Tom C.

[sprucetophere]

For what it's worth, one of the world's most respected luthiers Richard Brune strongly disagrees with you. (If you aren't aware, among other things - Segovia owned and played one of Mr. Brune's guitars).

In fact, the only new classical guitars Mr. Brune carries are Kenny Hill guitars. In conversations with him he has indicated on numerous occassions how highly he thinks of K. Hill guitars and this includes the New World (made in China) guitars that he carries.

On a similar note, those in the "classical world" generally have a very high regard for K. Hill guitars. In fact a well known professional classical guitarist (Stanley Yates) plays a Munich which is a K. Hill New World guitar.

Painting with such a broad brush can be dangerous.

Originally Posted by silverfox103

I know it's not easy all the time to buy American, but I try. I don't have to mention the economy and close to 10% unemployment, not good.

I know there are very good foreign made guitars such as our Canadian friends and the Japanese; but don't put the "made in China" guitars in that same class. Don't fool yourself, they are not.

When you see "made in China", you don't think of quality and craftsmanship.

I can't understand why there are guys on this forum who "pee their pants" when they talk about Ken Hill New World guitars. Check ebay, you see them there all the time. They are usually about a year old. Does that tell you anything?

Anyways, my 2 cents.

Tom C.

[silverfox103]

Originally Posted by sprucetophere

In fact a well known professional classical guitarist (Stanley Yates) plays a Munich which is a K. Hill New World guitar.

Munich's, I believe you will find they were made in Mexico.

Originally Posted by silverfox103

I can't understand why there are guys on this forum who "pee their pants" when they talk about Ken Hill New World guitars. Check ebay, you see them there all the time. They are usually about a year old. Does that tell you anything?

Tom C.

[sprucetophere]

Munichs (as well as the other New World guitars) have been made in California, Mexico and now China. It depends on the when they were made. Mr. Brune's opinion of New World guitars holds true of those made in China as well as those made elsewhere in the past.

[redstrat]

back to Guitars... which is what this forum is about...nylon strings are associated with guitars made in Spain originally, with cedar/rosewood combo's for classical and other woods like maple for flamenco. There are still some fine factories there Ramirez to name one of the most popular in that category. Lapatrie, a division of Godin make some excellent guitars in North America with the same cedar tops and maple backs and sides that Robert Godin is selling to the spanish and chinese makers. Canada has simply got the tonewood they want in abundance. China has some excellent guitars but spotty builds right now. Parocho, Paracutin Mexico some excellent guitars too but ALOT of roughly built garbage comes out of there.. kinda like the guy carved the neck with his jacknife or something... you really have to know what you are looking for quality wise there. In your price range, Taylor guitars, normally associated with steel string guitars, makes a pretty darn good nylon as does Martin... you should be looking for all solid woods in that range and a traditional classic neck profile...my two cents.

[dosland]

Originally Posted by redstrat

In your price range, Taylor guitars, normally associated with steel string guitars, makes a pretty darn good nylon as does Martin... you should be looking for all solid woods in that range and a traditional classic neck profile...my two cents.

$0.02 on the Taylor suggestion: I played a Taylor nylon string a few days ago at a small shop that takes really good care of their instruments, and I wasn't particularly impressed with the instrument's sound or action. Pretty sure it was an N34CE, which is solid spruce top with solid sapele back and sides. Just sounded kind of thin and airy and shallow all across the board, and the action was pretty high for a guitar with no projection and no real sustain. I don't think I'd buy a classical guitar with a sitka spruce top after playing that one, but I suppose some other instrument might blow me away if I give it another chance...