The guitar that "sounds worse" has more soul

[gmel555]

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

How a guitar sounds is pretty much controlled by the operator.......If a particular guitar inspires THAT operator to play more soulfully, then it is the results of that chemistry....HE

So true. As noted in other threads, Nick Drake (late60's/early70's) had a "dull" guitar tone that his fans tirelessly analyze and "chase". It fit his style, music (and soul?) perfectly. Many feel that besides his technique (and the guitar itself) he used old "dead" strings that most of us would have changed out. So much of the tone really is in the hands/fingers -and mind- of the player.

[fazool]

you said it has a wonderful sound\

but you said people like the Yairi sound better

but you said the Wan has more feeling



this all makes no sense and its a silly circular discussion. If it sounds better people will like the sound better. "Feeling" is not a sound.

It sounds more like you are trying to come to terms with the fact that you like this one better.

[tinnitus]

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

How a guitar sounds is pretty much controlled by the operator.

If a particular guitar inspires THAT operator to play more soulfully, then it is the results of that chemistry.

HE

Originally Posted by gmel555

So true. As noted in other threads, Nick Drake (late60's/early70's) had a "dull" guitar tone that his fans tirelessly analyze and "chase". It fit his style, music (and soul?) perfectly. Many feel that besides his technique (and the guitar itself) he used old "dead" strings that most of us would have changed out. So much of the tone really is in the hands/fingers -and mind- of the player.

I agree to a point, since experienced/soulful players can caress profoundly beautiful sounds from some really cheap/mediocre/abused instruments. It's not exactly unique. Rather, it's an inescapable feedback loop (touch/hearing/technique adjustments) that we all develop to varying degrees (more or less automatic on-the-fly) over years/decades of playing.

While I can note subtle differences in 3 of my 4 acoustics (and a dozen others that friends let me play), I also have a crusty old Silvertone (circa 1960s) that possesses a special boxy/gruff tone all its own. Imagine a human voice steeped in Chesterfields and bourbon for half a century, perhaps not unlike Lauren Bacall's (with maybe a touch of Randy Newman's congested honk). It's undeniably cool, eliciting praise from everyone who hears it.

There is absolutely nothing I can do to make it sound like any other guitar or vice-versa. And I wouldn't have it any other way.

[Charlie Bernstein]

My limited experience: The sound is from the guitar, the expression is from the player.

[Br1ck]

I have a POS arch top department store arch top I fixed up. It does a certain I'm poorer than dirt thing none of my good guitars will do.

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

I have a POS arch top department store arch top I fixed up. It does a certain I'm poorer than dirt thing none of my good guitars will do.

That I can believe! The timbre of a cheap archtop can be incredibly expressive. I wish that someone was still making dirt cheap acoustic archtops. Godin has stopped producing the 5th Avenue acoustic version and no one has taken up the baton.

[musicman1951]

Originally Posted by Bowie

No, but guitars with less sustain and fewer overtones tend to be more expressive. That's why they're popular for blues.

Interesting. I generally have the opposite experience.

I would think the Yamaha in this video would be described as having substantial overtones and sustain, and I think the playing is very expressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6x7QjEvFf8

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

no one has taken up the baton.

Fender are still producing the Gretsch New Yorker, no? Probably a better acoustic instrument in the sense that it has a solid top AFAIK but it should be in the same price range.

I had a cheap laminate round-hole German archtop for a while that my mom had kept stored right under the roof for over 40 years. Very bad shape and hard to play but hearing myself on it was a bit like listening to an old Robert Johnson recording (minus the talent of course)

Originally Posted by musicman1951

Interesting. I generally have the opposite experience.

Blues can be weird in that aspect, if we're thinking about delta/rootsy blues where resonators are so well at their place. Those do have overtones but at the same time a definite lofi sound, and extensive palm-muting is an integral part of the technique despite the fact that resos tend to have a shorter sustain.

[printer2]

I once taught a course of basic control theory and used examples from different areas of life, one was using car engines. Say you have a regular grocery getter (GG) , you want a nice even acceleration from a stoplight to highway speeds. Now compare that to a race car (RC), rather than having a torque curve of momma's car you have the engine tuned to make the most power, period. The engine idles rough, makes power in a higher rpm band, grandma will stall out at the stop light (if she could engage the clutch) but a RC driver will have an exhilarating ride round the track.

The GG has a wider rpm range, the RC having a big hump of power in a narrow range. Relating that to a guitar, the GG will have a wide frequency response and the attack and decay are well behaved. Then you have a guitar that is more highly tuned, the resonant peaks are higher, you get increased output with the strings ringing out more. The added "aliveness" comes at a cost, some of the low or high end could be reduced. But the range it has just sings. We are not talking a plywood guitar here, this is a luthier built guitar made to be a race horse, every ounce of fat removed to the point he questioned the longevity of the instrument. The smaller box shaves off some bass but the reduction in range has the string energy barking in the range it has. So the guitar can sound "worse", but still a blast to play. The player may have to be more careful with muting strings as they are more likely to ring in sympathetic resonance.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

How a guitar sounds is pretty much controlled by the operator.

If a particular guitar inspires THAT operator to play more soulfully, then it is the results of that chemistry.

HE

Ding ding ding winner

[Mark Stone]

A guitar’s sound quality is in the ear of the beholder. It really comes down to a matter of personal taste.