Need help making saddle

[123john]

I just won a 1976 Alvarez on the bay, as a project. It's not here yet, but the biggest repair needed (at least according to the very honest sounding seller!) is a saddle which it is missing. But all the articles I have come across start with "measure the existing saddle and...", which is not there for me. Can anybody point me to links that would help me make a saddle in this situation? Oh, btw, this would be my first time doing this. Thanks for your help.

[joeguam]

When you get the guitar, measure the LxWxD of the saddle slot in 3 different places: Low E, center, High E. Then, send an email to Bob Colosi and order 2 bone blanks. If it's a beater guitar, just order the "seconds", which just have aesthetic blemishes and are cheaper.

Bob will send you a blank bigger than your dimensions, and you can just shave it down to size from there. If you have intonation problems, look up saddle compensations, Robbie O'brien has a good YouTube video showing how to do it.

[Tony Done]

Take the guitar down to a guitar shop that does minor repairs and/or sells small parts, and find one the right thickness by testing. With a bit of luck they will have a saddle in the right length and thickness, and all you will need to do is file it down to the correct height. Otherwise, get a blank and start from scratch. Many repair shop save all their old reusable parts, so they might have an old one that is suitable.

[123john]

Joe and Tony, thanks for the great info. Now I could use a little help in the "file to the correct height" part. Do I just start by putting some strings on and filing, then keep doing that until the height looks and feels right? Thanks.

First, fit the blank (length and thickness only) to the slot. Put a low E and high E string on with just enough tension to snug them against the saddle. I say that because I don't like too much tension on an overly tall saddle. Now measure the height above the 12th fret.

You have several other guitars in your profile. Measure the string height of one that feels good and compare that to the measurements above. Use that to get the new saddle close, but leave it a bit tall. It's easier to take material off than put it back on. As you get closer to the that height with the new saddle, put on a full set of strings and tune to pitch. Now check the relief and adjust to get it fairly flat, about 0.005" - 0.010". You can also check the nut slots at this point and lower them if needed.

With the nut and relief adjusted, measure the string height at the 12th fret again. Lower it if necessary for your style.

[arie]

then there's the compensation....

Originally Posted by arie

then there's the compensation....

I've never been thrilled with compensated saddles. I usually leave mine straight.

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

I've never been thrilled with compensated saddles. I usually leave mine straight.

FWIW, I didn't used to be, but have switched to making compensated saddles as standard for acoustic guitars.

Also, good explanation for roughing out a saddle, Todd.

I'll add to that for the Original Poster that you'll want to remember to curve the top of the saddle to yield action with incrementally higher strings from higher pitch to lower pitch. So your high e string action should be near 1.9mm, and low e near 2.4mm (12th fret), just shy of a tenth of a mm higher action string to string.

[123john]

Again, thanks for a great Saddles 101 course! I think I now have enough information to give it a shot.

[joeguam]

Once again, everyone's good friend Mr. Frank Ford provides invaluable information (and probably has no idea how many he's helped!):
Making a New Saddle

He also has other write-ups regarding saddles, such as:
Lowering Action at the Saddle

[joeguam]

...and here are two good videos from Robbie O'brien:
Luthier Tips du Jour - Nut and Saddle Making


...here's one where he talks about compensation:
Luthier Tips du Jour - Intonation


Ned and the other Luthiers can provide more info, but as Robbie eludes to in the video, your tuner does not have to super accurate, it just has to be [I]consistent[/].

[Tony Done]

Here's what I do:

Get length and thickness fitting in the saddle slot properly.

Get the curvature of the saddle top the same as the fingerboard. I use gauges and a special jig for this, but if you do it by eye, leave it with a little too much curvature until later - See below.

Put in the new saddle and string the guitar up without too much tension.

Measure the 12/14th fret action height a for the 6th and 1st strings. Now do some maths. If the action height is 3.2mm, and you want 1.8mm, say, on the treble side, you need to lower the saddle by 1.4mm. To get this you need to take twice that amount off the saddle ie 2.8mm off the treble side. If the action height is 3.4 mm at the bass side and you want 2.5mm, you need to take 1.8mm off the bass side.

Now you need to mark the amount to be removed on the bottom of the saddle. File most of it off roughly, then level it.

Refit the saddle, string up to full pitch, check and adjust the neck relief then repeat the measuring and maths process. Also at this stage look down the neck and see if the fretboard curvature is the same as the saddle. Alternatively, remove the saddle and butt it against the end of the fretboard - easy on martin style boards with a squared-off end - and mark the fretboard curvature onto the saddle with a pencil.

File down and crown the saddle using the fretboard curvature as a guide- ie keep the top of the saddle parallel to the pencil mark.

Finish the stock removal and leveling process, taking care to get the bottom of the saddle dead flat and at right angles to the height. I sometimes use a small block of wood as a guide for the latter.

Install the saddle and string up. Make further minor adjustments to the saddle if necessary.

Tony, that will work too, and obviously you're happy with the results. However, I think you've put more emphasis on fretboard radius that necessary. I never consider the radius of the saddle.

I know how high I want the strings at the 12th fret and I cut the saddle down until I get there. If you're staggering the strings so that the high E is the lowest (say 0.080") and the low E is the highest (say 0.095") the four strings in the middle will be at progressive heights between those two numbers.

Think about a modern Telecaster or Stratocaster bridge. You really don't worry about the fretboard radius there. You adjust each saddle individually. An acoustic guitar is the same expect we make a smooth curve on top of the saddle to "connect the dots".

I also adjust everything from the top. Once the saddle is fitted to the bottom of the slot, I don't mess with it again. Probably from my tinkering with long saddles, but it works on short saddles too. It's counterproductive if you're using a pre-compensated blank, I suppose, but I start with plain blanks.

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

Think about a modern Telecaster or Stratocaster bridge. You really don't worry about the fretboard radius there. You adjust each saddle individually.

Yes, because you can adjust the saddle heights individually as the bridge and saddles are on the guitar. Does not compute as a comparison for me.

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

I also adjust everything from the top. Once the saddle is fitted to the bottom of the slot, I don't mess with it again.

I feel that getting the radius matched once and once only, then removing material from the bottom of the saddle is a much easier and consistent approach than the top down approach.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Ned Milburn

Yes, because you can adjust the saddle heights individually as the bridge and saddles are on the guitar. Does not compute as a comparison for me.

I think Todd's point is that when one can set the string height of each string, such as on a Telecaster bridge, no consideration is given to "fingerboard radius". Each string height is as it needs to be.

A similar approach can be used on a non-adjustable saddle, setting each string height as it needs to be, regardless of fingerboard radius.

I feel that getting the radius matched once and once only, then removing material from the bottom of the saddle is a much easier and consistent approach than the top down approach.

That works well provided that the amount that needs to removed is either uniform for all 6 strings, or a linear amount - i.e. accomplished by tapering the height from the bottom along a straight line. It doesn't work when the string heights need to be varied/corrected individually, which is often the case. Then add in the often-seen need to adjust the amount of compensation for each string - within the limits of the width of the existing saddle - and you may as well make the changes from the top.

In short, its a case-by-case situation. Do what works best for the situation with which you are presented.